How to apply New Work ideas to rethink processes with Benjamin Rolff

How to apply New Work ideas to rethink processes with Benjamin Rolff

#004: Join me interviewing Benjamin Rolff on New Work, New Performance and Purpose. – Be prepared for a load of new ideas and impulses.

In this episode, I am interviewing the New Work expert Benjamin Rolff on how to apply new work ideas to rethink processes.

He will tell us more about his interpretation of the term New Work and his New Performance approach. He shares practical examples and tipps on how to apply New Process to inspire people for processes and he deep dives with us into the topic of purpose.

Today’s Guest

Benjamin Rolff

New Work Expert, Coach and Founder of the New Performance Academy, host of the New Performance Podcast



You’ll learn

  • What New Work and New Performance are
  • What a purpose is
  • How to use purpose to inspire/motivate people
  • How to develop a purpose
  • Inspirations on how to use New Work ideas to rethink processes


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Please note that the transcript was generated automatically and only slightly adjusted. It does not claim to be a perfect transcription.

Benjamin (00:00:00) – This already is building a bridge, of course, to this whole topic of purpose. So really starting with the why and mind, and take your time to, to dive into this topic.

Mirko (00:00:32) – Welcome to episode four of The New Process podcast. Today I’m going to talk to Benjamin Rolff. He is new work expert from Hamburg, Germany. He will give some insights into some very interesting new work ideas on how to use new work to rethink processes. So we are going to deep dive into that today. Benjamin is the founder of the New Performance Academy, and there, um, he’s working as a coach to support people on their way to a healthier and purposeful work life. And he’s also host of the New Performance podcast There. He interviews experts and role models who rethink work and life. And he also shares his own experience about new performance, and you’ll learn more about what new performance really is within the episode for sure. He’s also partner and coach at the New Work Hub. New Work Hub is a platform which connects corporations, academia, startups, public institutions, and so on for a better working world. Before that, he has been working as senior consultant corporate strategy at the Auto Group in Hamburg. And, uh, also a strategy consultant for transformation and change at ibm. He studied international business administration in Berlin, and by the way, he’s a successful triathlete.

Mirko (00:02:06) – Yeah, cool. Welcome Benjamin. Uh, great to have you here in the New Process podcast, and the the first interview episode, which I’m doing, and, um, it, it was not, uh, just, uh, an accident that I invited you because you  basically are the one, um, who is responsible for why I’m here. Uh, or at least you gave the ultimate impulse for me to go all in with new process last year. And some, I still remember us walking through Hamburg, shut Park and, uh, talking about what the future might bring for us. And, uh, now I’m here, um, with this podcast and together with you and, um, welcome. That’s great to have you.

Benjamin (00:02:46) – Yeah, thank you very much, Mirko. Very happy to be joining you, uh, as one of your first guests on this podcast journey. And yes, still, still remember our walk around the park, uh, uh, great times, but I think, uh, there’s some great, great times ahead, huh? ?

Mirko (00:03:02) – I hope so. I hope so. , let’s see what this, uh, interview will bring as inspirations and what kind of good time. So, uh, you know, I’m an airline guy, so, uh, that’s why I thought it might make sense to, uh, use this episode. Like, like having a flight and, um, to start a flight, we need a check-in, right? And, um, therefore I prepared a number of questions. And the first question is, this is really an airline check-in question. Uh, what do you prefer? Aisle or window? Seed?

Benjamin (00:03:34) – Well, it actually really, really depends, and that’s, that’s the funny part. Um, usually, um, when, when I’m taking shorter flights, I mean, nowadays you shouldn’t take any short flights  anymore, but, uh, in case I do, so, so everything that’s I think maximum of like three hours or maybe even four hours. So maybe from here to the, to the Canarian Islands, I, I still would take the window seat. And why the window seat? Because, um, I actually like, like the view outside, you know, I mean, um, starting here in Hamburg and maybe having a look on the, uh, El River or the, the Alster Lake and, and just, um, also seeing where you’re going. Maybe it also gives me a little sense of control, actually, which is quite funny, you know, so looking outside and seeing where you’re going and, and what’s happening around you. So that would be my preferred choice. But, but in case the flight would be much longer, so maybe, I don’t know, 6, 8, 10 hours, I usually would take the, the, the is seat because it gives me more flexibility, you know, just to get up and walk around and, and do whatever I want to do. So that would be my preferred choice actually. Yeah,

Mirko (00:04:43) – . Yeah. That’s, that’s interesting. I’m always looking for, uh, boarding strategies as well. So, uh, do I have a window seat or I seat, how do I get and, and how do I get out? So how much time does it need to take out of the, the plane? And that’s why I’m asking that, and that’s cool. That’s interesting. Thank you very much. And is there a favorite airport that you have?

Benjamin (00:05:03) – Favorite airport? Wow, that’s a, it’s a big question. Um, I mean, since I’m located in Hamburg, uh, usually I, I fly out from the Hamburg airport, um, however, and I, I also think it’s quite a good he airport, it’s easy to reach here in Hamburg, so pretty close to the city center. It’s, um, yeah, not so big, so you do not have to cover that much space to, to get to the security or even to, um, yeah, to your airplane. So that’s quite nice actually. Um, however, you know, um, thinking about maybe very generally, which airport did I really like or what was a great experience, I, um, actually had a great experience, um, flying into Hawaii or the Hawaiian Island, Maui. Why? Because it was such a tiny airport and, um, actually much of the space was outside and it was green, and you had palm trees and plants and everything, so that was actually quite, quite nice. . Yeah,

Mirko (00:06:00) – I can imagine. Yeah, that’s good. Now, I, uh, wanna go on holidays, so, nah, damn . But let’s continue. Uh, there’s a third question which goes a little bit more into the direction of processes now. So what was the best process you’ve ever experienced yourself?

Benjamin (00:06:16) – Yeah, well, um, the best process, I mean, usually probably in your everyday life, you, you come across quite, quite a few processes probably. And, um, I think for me, the best processes are those that we are shit before, you know, so I, I, I know that something did not work very well, what was very annoying, and then suddenly it’s so easy, you know, and you have this difference, uh, from, from one to the other. And, uh, something that was quite, quite a positive experience for me is, um, actually doing, um, a transaction with my banking app because, um, what they integrated, I think it was sometime last year’s, um, taking a photo of the invoice and, um, all the data gets, uh, drawn into, into the app. So you, you do not have to enter the name or, you know, the, the pin number or anything, you know, the amount. It’s all drawn into the app, and you just have to be like, okay, let’s send this money out, and you enter your pin and that’s it, you know? And it made my life particularly easier, you know? Uh, so less annoying, and I think that’s, it’s a good process from my perspective, .

Mirko (00:07:25) – Yeah, that, that’s cool. I, I really love when there is a QR code on the invoice where you just can scan the code. Yeah. Even all the data is there without recognition. So often there are some mistakes in the recognition process, what I experienced there, but yeah, that’s, that’s cool. Okay. I, I think now we are checked in and, uh, we are ready for the boarding. So let’s get closer to, um, the topic of, uh, today’s session. And before we dive into the topic itself, I would like to know what your relationship to processes is. How would you describe your relationship to processes?

Benjamin (00:08:01) – Well, probably not a very close relationship or maybe, maybe sometimes, uh, even a little, uh, love and hate, I would say love and hate relationship maybe. Um, why love and hate? I, I think love because of course I love it when things are running smooth and even, you know, um, owning my own business and, uh, doing very diverse things from podcasting, from having a coaching business, a consulting business, you very much appreciate when things are running smooth and, you know, um, it’s very reliable what you are doing at the end, you know, so you have maybe a result in mind, like maybe recording a podcast, you know, or, or launching a new product. And, you know, um, you are starting at one point and, you know, a very, very, um, re yeah, in a reliable way. Uh, you can trust the process, you know, a specific result will come out at the end.

Benjamin (00:08:58) – And I think if this is really the case, then I love processes , but on the other hand, I mean, I know processes is all around, building them, setting them up, uh, designing them, but also optimizing processes, you know, of course, you know, managing the process along the way, and also seeing what could be done better, you know, where, where our challenges were obstacles. And I think this is not really my cup of tea, you know, so, so, so optimizing and, and managing, um, yeah, the, the journey, uh, to, to, to, yeah, making processes even better. I think there, there are other people that can do that a lot better. ,

Mirko (00:09:37) – . Okay. That’s good to know.  then, I think now, now we can, uh, start, take off and, uh, dive deeper into today’s topic, and therefore, um, I would like to ask you what this, uh, new work topic is really about from your perspective. So is there a definition you would like to share with the listeners, or how would you approach that?

Benjamin (00:10:00) – Well, yeah, I mean, first of all, new work, um, is a pretty specific term. And, um, I think, um, especially since we are, um, English speaking, it, it could be that some people are more familiar with what we could call a future of work, even. Because I think, uh, new work is, is yeah, well known in a, in a German speaking context, but I think very international would be maybe even a future of work. And I mean, this is pretty much around, um, I would say humanizing the work that we do. So, I mean, if, if we look at, um, all the discussions that are taking place currently around how, how work itself is evolving, we oftentimes talk about home office, remote work, you know, maybe hybrid ways of working, and it’s very much around the workplace where we work and where we do the work.

Benjamin (00:10:51) – But this is not the future of work, you know, it’s not just about working from home or working remotely, or being a digital nomad and working from the beach. If we talk about new work or the future of work, this is really about a broader perspective on how work itself is evolving. As I said, it’s, it’s more about humanizing maybe even work. And, and what does that even mean? I think from my perspective, um, we are now in, in, in the age of time where we think more about what do we need as human beings to do good work, to do healthy work, to do work that’s engaging, that’s fulfilling, that’s maybe also tapping into our potential. And I think maybe also looking a little bit in the history and maybe even looking into, yeah, um, the, the, the world of work currently, we see that this is not happening on a broad scale.

Benjamin (00:11:44) – We see, um, and this is what some surveys for, for instance, uh, Gallop is, uh, uh, an in institute that’s, um, yeah, getting or analyzing, um, um, the, I would say the mood on the workplace or in, in the word of work, um, every year. And what they see is that many, many people, I think round about 80% of employees are not really emotionally engaged at their workplace. So they are just coming to work to do whatever is, is being told to them, you know, just fulfilling expectations, but they do not really feel fulfilled by what they do. They do not really have the feeling they can use their strength, and they can put some passion or maybe even feel that the work that they do has an impact or has, is fulfilling some kind of purpose. And I think this is a big potential that we see to design a work that’s tapp into this individual potential. And that’s, yeah, really creating a work experience that’s more, more engaging and more fulfilling for everyone.

Mirko (00:12:43) – Okay. That’s, that’s cool. That really catches me because, um, what you just described perfectly fits to how I experienced processes within the last year. So at a specific point in time, I decided now it’s time to get more human-centric BPM mindset, and to have a closer look onto the people. So that’s how this combination of, um, new work on the one hand side and process management was developed. And, uh, that’s great to get some more insights, uh, from your perspective on that, because I, uh, gotta know you as an, uh, expert on LinkedIn, I would say about more than two years ago, I noticed your posts from time to time, and you were talking a lot about, um, new work topics, but also new performance that’s, uh, the term you are using there. Can you tell us a little bit more about what’s behind new performance?

Benjamin (00:13:33) – Yeah, I would say from my perspective, um, new performances is more like, um, maybe some category, maybe even, or, or some part of this whole new work or future of work context, because what I especially see, and I mean even more during the last two or three years, is that, that, that work is, is, is changing rapidly. You know, I mean, we, due to the Corona pandemic especially, you know, we see that people are working from home, people are working more flexibly, and we see that this is even working out very well. You know, people can collaborate, um, sitting, you know, just, just working from home or really working from anywhere. But, um, this is not just about where we work, but of course, what kind of opportunities arise by doing that. You know, you maybe you can spend more time with a family, you can spend more time flexibly caring for other people, maybe socially, um, engaging yourself, um, maybe, um, follow a passion, being becoming a, a coach at a football club, you know, and this is something that you can maybe even integrate more into your everyday life, what was not so much possible before when you need to get out of the house at six 30, you know, to commute to the workplace.

Benjamin (00:14:45) – And you were home maybe at seven 30 because the commute back was so long and in between, yeah, you were just kind of caught at the workplace doing work and doing meetings, you know, and I think this is changing and what, what’s changing? I mean, we get more flexibility, um, of how we do the work and where we do the work. And using this flexibility, I think we have opportunities to make, um, our life a little more diverse, a little more healthier, even a little more maybe matching to our personal needs. And I mean, matching to the personal needs might be for some people, spending more time with the kids, you know, being able to pick them up in the afternoon, um, maybe hanging out with the kids on the playground for a couple hours of hours and doing, then doing some kind of work, um, later during the evening, you know, after you brought them to bed.

Benjamin (00:15:33) – And this is a way of viewing using flexibilities. For me personally, using flexibility could be about, um, doing some sports during the day, you know, being like, Hey, um, in the afternoon, I, I have an energy low anyway, so why not trying to find, um, a time slot where I can go for a run for an hour, you know? And do, do this run for yourself, be mentally fresh afterwards, and then getting back to work, you know, and doing, doing the work in better energy and, and in better shape, and a clear ride and a fresh mindset. And I think there’s a big potential. This has, not only for our own wellbeing, for my individual wellbeing, but I think at the end for an entire team, for a company, for the whole society. Why? Because I think at the end, everyone will also be more productive.

Benjamin (00:16:22) – You know, you will be happier, you will be more productive, you have better energy when you do the work that you do. I mean, if I have time to go for a job, you know, or to spend some time with my kids, maybe for an hour or two, I bet you will be better off doing the work afterwards, you know, because you feel, you, you just feel well, you have some energy return and you not just sit at your workplace for like 10 hours straight from meeting to meeting to meeting, and probably after five hours you’re brain dead anyways, you know? And, and, and for the afternoon, or even like early evening, you probably do not get that much, much stuff done anymore. And so at the end, bringing that all together, what is new performance? New performance is about seeing those flexibilities and opportunities, um, in the workplace or in this whole world of work.

Benjamin (00:17:14) – And then using them to create our work, create the working cultures more healthy, more engaging, maybe even more purpose driven. And, um, of course, this has different kinds of pillars that I’m also touching in my work. And, um, we can, we can, um, dive a little deeper into one or two. And so one topic is all about purpose, you know, so getting a clear direction of where you are going for yourself, but also for the team. So what is it that we want to drive forward? What is it that we want to, um, yeah, maybe, um, yeah, move in the world? What’s the impact that we want to have and how can we use our potential to that? And then the other part is really much about, um, creating, I would say work cultures, but also individual routines, team routines and materials that are actually good for our health and and wellbeing. So having this mental, um, health, but also physical social health, a little more in the center of the way that we work. Those are mainly two pillars that I’m, I’m specifically looking at in my work around new performance.

Mirko (00:18:20) – Okay. That’s super interesting because on the one hand side, you just talked about, uh, the individual needs, for example. And this is, uh, one of the new process principles to take the individual needs of the people working in the process into account when designing a process. So there might be something which matches, and on the other hand, uh, you talked about purpose and, um, give meaning to the processes, also one of the new process principles. So there is another match. And that’s, that’s quite interesting. From your perspective, what do you think, how can we use, uh, these new performance ideas to rethink processes?

Benjamin (00:18:57) – I think they are quite a few aspects that that can be quite matching. And I think one, one is really around, around, um, starting, starting off also the work with, um, all around processes with a purpose in mind. And, and why a purpose in mind? Um, as I said, I think it gives, it creates clarity for everyone involved at first, and I think it really makes sense. Um, yeah, working with processes, but with every project that you do with, with every kind of work that you do, to take your time at the beginning to think about what is it that we want to create? So what is, have a little bit the result in mind before you know, what’s the impact this should have, and on whom, you know, who are you addressing? Is it, um, the customer, is it someone else? Is it a specific stakeholder?

Benjamin (00:19:49) – And what is it that you want to change for them? What’s the bigger purpose this should create for, for, for, yeah, some kind of personal people or maybe even society, you know? And I think taking some time to achieve this clarity has, uh, several benefits, you know, I mean, on the one hand, I think it, um, it gives a clear direction to everyone who’s involved in this process. So I think it also makes the whole work that’s, that’s going to be done in the upcoming maybe weeks, month, years, around a process, it makes it leaner, it makes it clearer. I think it causes less friction, and it also helps to foster good collaboration because everyone knows what we are trying to do here and what’s the bigger picture behind what we are doing. So I think this is very, very important. But also the other part is if I know, or if I have a good feeling for what are we trying to do here, and I see this impact, and I fear this purpose, and I see it has a sense of meaning, what we do, I am a lot more motivated to get the work done, and probably my colleagues will be as well.

Benjamin (00:20:56) – So if we are the team and we try to design a new process or improve a process and create good processes, I think starting with this purpose can just, um, yeah, create some kind of motivation and, and drive passion within the team to really get great work done. And I think this is a, a very important starting point.

Mirko (00:21:16) – Okay. That’s super interesting. Can you give someone insights into how you would develop, um, purpose for individual or, uh, for a team, whatever, maybe you have an example of, uh, one of the topics we were working on lately?

Benjamin (00:21:31) – Yeah, yeah. I mean, um, to, to make it pretty simple. Um, for me it’s also always two dimensions I’m looking at with, uh, with the teams I’m working within on the, on, on the one hand, it always starts with, um, an inner perspective. So looking within the team at first and, and what’s this inner perspective? This is about, um, finding answers to questions such as, um, what are we good at? What makes us as a team unique? What are our capabilities? What are our strength? What are maybe also some, some passions that we bring together as a team? So this is really about answering the question, what makes us unique and what’s also the strength of the people that come together, because every team can be quite different. You know, sometimes you’re working with these five people, then it’s those 10 people, and it’s always a unique group of people.

Benjamin (00:22:26) – And answering this question first of what kind of people are coming together here and what makes us unique and also strong as a group, I think this is, this is the first perspective that we need. So in a perspective, and then matching that with an outer perspective. So asking yourself and asking the team, asking everyone, and what is it that we want to actually change? What is it that we want to actually move by doing the work that we do? So this is, uh, really about using our strength as a team now, but what, what should happen? You know, what is it that we want to, um, yeah, drive forward or create or change? And this is really about an impact. So, um, having the impact in mind that you want to create as a team. And I mean, for instance, you know, when I’m working with, oftentimes working also with leadership groups.

Benjamin (00:23:17) – Um, so we, we had a workshop a couple of, uh, weeks ago, just really with a leadership group that was asking themselves, what is it that we want to change, um, or drive as a leadership group in our organization, you know? And so they could really see, for instance, that they, they are like, okay, why did we become leaders in the first place? Because, um, they want to create a clear vision so they have the strategic view, for instance, you know, so this is a capability that they have, having this strategic view, having this long-term view in mind. And by that also, um, creating some kind of, um, clarity and direction for the people they work with. And this could be, for instance, this, this impact that they have, you know, so giving a direction and giving a clear orientation for the people they work with. And so for instances, this could be one, one clear purpose of why they are the leaders they are and what they want to do as a group of, of leaders, for instance, within the organization.

Mirko (00:24:16) – Okay, cool. And, um, if we are going to develop something like a team purpose, what would you recommend on how to, how to do that? Is that just a workshop with all the people involved, or, uh, how would you approach

Benjamin (00:24:29) – This? Yeah, that I, I think there will be a good first step. So , setting up a really a workshop, you know, and, and bringing all the people together. And, um, uh, definitely, and I think this is something that I find pretty important and useful, um, have everyone, um, involved in this process. So everyone, every single one should be, um, should have space and some room to talk about their perspectives. So what is it that, um, I can do? What is it that I want to do? What is it, um, that drives me and motivates me? So it really starts with the in individual, also in, in teams, you know? And so collecting those, those different perspectives and give room to col, collect this different perspectives, and then, um, bring it together collectively and trying to, to have one collective view. And from my perspective, well, two hours would be a little too little probably, depending on how big the team is.

Benjamin (00:25:29) – Um, I mean, if you are a small team of like, I don’t know, like, um, five people, six people, I think having half a day for it, um, you know, like, like three hours if it’s moderated really, really well, could be, can be okay. But, um, for bigger teams, um, I usually recommend really taking your time, um, getting to know each other. Also, it, it’s also a little bit about team building and building relationships and building trust. So really taking maybe even a day to, to dive into who are we and what is it that we want to, um, achieve.

Mirko (00:26:04) – Okay. Yeah. That, that’s super fascinating for me, especially for me because I’m, I’m a process guy. Yeah, the procedure is interesting to know, but also talking about these more fuzzy emotional topics like purpose. And maybe one final question on, on this, uh, purpose, uh, thing everybody is talking about, can you give an example of how a team purpose or in individual purpose might look like? Just, um, yeah, to give an example to the listeners here.

Benjamin (00:26:35) – Yeah. Well, um, as I, as I said, you know, just maybe starting again, in theory, what I really like is if you combine it also, um, those two perspectives, um, a purpose, purpose that’s, um, also bringing out the, um, uniqueness of a person or a team, and then combining it with the impact that they want to have. And so, for instance, this could be around, you know, for instance, I’m just making it up now, you know, but, um, SpaceX, um, you know, um, uh, how would you say, space company by, by Elon Musk. Uh, and they are designing innovative space technology. And so the question could be what makes them unique and probably what could make them unique is a really, really high level of engineering expertise that they bring together in order to be able to come up with this innovative space technology. So, um, one part of this pur purpose could really be, um, we are making use of our unique engineering expertise that we bring together.

Benjamin (00:27:46) – But then the second question is, but what, for, what is, what is the impact? And the impact could be, well ultimately to bring, um, human beings on another planet, you know, or to, to allow humankind, uh, one day to, um, move to another planet. And this could be the purpose, you know, we use our, um, extraordinary engineering expertise to enable, um, humankind to one day live on another planet, for instance, could be a purpose. And, and I mean, it’s a really huge, broad purpose, you know, but as I said, it gives direction, you know, everyone knows, well, we are coming to work because maybe not in one year, maybe not in two years, maybe in 10 years, we want to make this possible. And, um, you see, it’s a, it’s a more a broad picture, you know, it’s not about, um, finding one specific goal.

Benjamin (00:28:45) – So this is not about purpose. It’s not about saying on this state with this spaceship, we will go X, Y, z. This is not a purpose. This would be a goal. So a purpose is really about a bigger picture, bigger, let’s say, direction where we are moving towards. And, um, it could be, it can be a little fuzzy also, but I think it’s a good starting point, or, and of course, um, the, the best next step is then to, to draw that down into more concrete goals. So for instance, you know, SpaceX could, could actually be like, okay, we need to, um, develop this, um, uh, engine space engine until, uh, 2025, you know, that has this amount of power and, uh, can carry this amount of weight, for instance, you know, can be a specific goal that will enable us then to reach this purpose one day.

Mirko (00:29:38) – Cool. Yeah, I can already imagine how this could look like if we continue and, uh, use the power of purpose for processes as well, um, which is a topic we both already talked about in the past. And, uh, I will dive deeper into this within the next episode. So just a short teaser on that . Um, and that’s super fascinating from my point of view. That’s, that’s great to learn a little bit more about you yourself. Uh, would you like to share your individual purpose with us? Uh, have you already defined your purpose? Have you found your purpose or are you still working on that

Benjamin (00:30:14) – ? Have you, have you found, have you found your purpose? Yeah, yeah. Uh, interesting question. Of course. I mean, you know, talking about purpose so much, and, uh, then you get asked, what’s your own purpose ? Um, well, I would, I would, I would kind of, um, uh, differentiate a little bit, and I, I’m, I’m, I’m also doing coaching work, so, so one, one on one with, with people or small groups. And, um, the question that always comes up with, uh, is like, on, on what kind of level should I define this personal purpose? So if, if I’m an individual and not a team, so what’s the level where, where I’m defining this purpose, or is it more like looking at my whole life, you know, I am Benjamin, you know, uh, with my whole life perspective, what’s the purpose? Or could a purpose also work just maybe for our work perspective, you know, for, for instance and or for another perspective in life.

Benjamin (00:31:11) – And for me personally, what, what I did is, um, creating a purpose or also writing down some kind of purpose that gives, gives me direction in, in my work life mainly to, to all the entrepreneurial endeavors I’m on, you know, to give me direction, what are maybe some projects and, and, and next big goals that I want to set. And this purpose, actually, I can, I can just te tell that actually, um, is, um, very much connected to this whole new performance topic. And it’s, um, called empowering people to create a work life that is fulfilling, impactful, and healthy would be my purpose. And what you see here, um, I’m a little more, I’m trying to be a little catchy also, you know, something that’s easy to remember for me and what I’m, for instance, not so much focusing on in my purpose is what, what are my skills or capabilities? I left that out a little bit, but I was more focusing on what’s the impact, you know, so to empower people to, to live a fulfilling, impactful, healthy work life. So this is the, the impact I want to have with everything that I do, uh, with, with, uh, the workshops, with, uh, guiding teams, with, uh, doing consulting and organizations, doing one-on-one coaching, that’s the, the end goal, so to say that I have in mind. Wow,

Mirko (00:32:34) – That’s pretty cool. And I can definitely confirm that you’re in a good way there because all the impulses that you gave me throughout the last two years, they just helped me to yeah, improve what I’m doing to get to a better performance in, in life. So healthier, more fun. Definitely more fun now, . That’s cool. So, uh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you very much. That’s, uh, great, happy to

Benjamin (00:32:56) – Hear that. Happy to hear that .

Mirko (00:32:59) – Nice. Nice. Okay, cool. Uh, I think that’s, uh, enough, uh, diving into that topic, I could go on for hours. Um, but um, yeah, just to wrap it up, um, what would you recommend as key message to the listeners? Uh, what should they take into account to rethink processes from a new performance perspective?

Benjamin (00:33:21) – I think, I think I would have maybe three takeaways, maybe some, some key takeaways that would be important to me. I think one is, um, to, to involve, really involve the, the people in, in, in this whole process of designing and, and, and building the process. So, um, having really giving everyone space to, um, articulate their view, perspective and opinion, um, I think is very, very important. Secondly, um, really diving into, um, also the needs, you know, the needs of the people, the needs of the team definitely. But of course, then also the needs of, um, your stakeholders or the, the people you want to impact with, um, the, um, process that you might be designing or improving. So I think, um, much, much direction can be drawn from focusing on, on, on personal, uh, individual needs or needs, needs of stakeholders or groups of people.

Benjamin (00:34:23) – And at the end, and this may be my, my third, um, takeaway, this already is building a bridge, of course, to this whole, um, topic of purpose. So really starting with the why and mind and take your time to, to dive into this topic. So really, um, get a workshop, uh, together with people. Maybe get some external moderation for that because usually, um, if you are the project lead for something like that, you are not the the right person to moderate something like that because why not? Because you yourself should be involved in this whole thinking perspective. You are not the moderator. You are the one giving Im input as well and articulating your own perspective, but also listening to what the others are saying. And my, um, my own experience is, um, filling those two roles in a workshop. So doing the moderation as a team lead, um, for something like a purpose that’s pretty, also pretty difficult topic sometimes. And then also being a member of the team and giving your input is really, really demanding and I would not recommend it. So really take your time, take your space, maybe get an external view on this whole topic of purpose is something I would recommend.

Mirko (00:35:42) – Well, that’s great. So thank you for summarizing these, uh, three core points. Um, wow, so much to learn from you. Thanks a lot. Where can our listeners go to, if they would like to learn more about new performance?

Benjamin (00:35:57) – Yeah, getting to know more about new performance. Well, definitely for all German speaking, uh, um, listeners, I would say, because most of the stuff I’m actually doing is, is is German speaking. And, um, I think one, one go-to place is definitely, uh, LinkedIn. You can find me on LinkedIn. Um, I’m, I’m, yeah, sharing some really crisp and short perspectives on new work, um, new performance, healthy work, um, purpose and so on and so forth, um, on a, yeah, weekly basis with, with short postings and religious empires, but also, um, if you want to go deeper into some of those topics. Um, also, yeah, follow along on the new performance podcast, so, um, also, um, having some, yeah, exciting guests and experts, role models around all those topics in my podcast on a regular basis. So I think this is also another, uh, go-to place to check out some more, some more ideas.

Mirko (00:36:54) – Yeah. Great. I, I can definitely recommend, uh, following you on LinkedIn. Um, maybe also for the English speaking people out there, uh, I think there’s a very good translation, uh, feature already in LinkedIn, so you can simply translate these, um, German language impulse into English as well. So that’s, uh, always nice. Great. Yeah. Thank you very much. And is there a recommendation from, uh, your perspective into which topic we should have a closer look into or to which experts we should talk, should talk to or interview, ask them to get more ideas on how to rethink processes?

Benjamin (00:37:34) – Definitely some, some, some different different kinds of, um, people I would recommend, uh, just having a look at and just following along. I’m not sure if they’re willing to, to join a podcast, uh, would be, would be great if they are. So I think on a very international level, I am, I, I love to follow Adam Grant. Adam Grant is a professor of the Wharton University in the United States, and he’s, um, also sharing so many just short empires on mainly company culture and um, also psychology behind work. And I think this is really fascinating because it’s also, um, yeah, pointing out how we as human beings stick and what we need to do good work and, and, and healthy work and, and fulfilling work. And I think sometimes they’re just really short, short ideas that really bring you to, to, to take on another perspective. So this is something, and also, um, a more German speaking guy that I also like to follow along is, um, professor of Ang Irvine from the, uh, from the, um, university St.

Benjamin (00:38:44) – Gallen and he’s also leadership, uh, professor and also sharing diverse, um, yeah, ideas around, uh, leadership and teamwork and company culture and how we can really just create, um, a workplace and world of work that’s better for everyone. And I think if we have this perspective in mind, also this broader perspective, I think we will also get plenty of ideas on what kind of processes we need, uh, to create a better working world and maybe also society on a broader perspective. And also we, I think we will get many ideas on how we can plan, design and do the work, um, a lot better also working on processes. So I thought, I think those would be two people definitely to follow.

Mirko (00:39:29) – Yeah. Cool. Thanks. Have you by the way, realized that we already smoothly landed this flight, this episode, so we are coming to an end. So how would you summarize your flight experience with just three words?

Benjamin (00:39:42) – Well, well, yeah, I think it was, uh, first of all, it was a quick, quick flight, uh, but also very, very inspiring flight. Um, I think you, you are filling your role quite nicely, being the pilot, maybe even being the steward. So I, I felt hosted really, really nicely. And uh, thank you very much. Thank you very much for the, the great questions and also giving, um, space to those important topics. I think, um, you process is a good way of bringing change to, um, the workplace, but also I think to maybe the society on a broader perspective. So I think such important topics. So thank you very much Muko

Mirko (00:40:20) – Benjamin, thank you very much. I really enjoyed our flight and uh, our discussion and I’m looking forward to the next flight with you. So thank very much. Bye-bye. And

Benjamin (00:40:31) – Thanks to you take take care of Chak.

Mirko (00:40:37) – Let’s recap today’s new process inspiration.

Mirko (00:40:41) – Wow, what a load of information and ideas who, I hope you also enjoyed the session with Benjamin and uh, were able to take some notes. I definitely did, and I’m going to share my notes with you. Maybe you also got some inspirations for your own work to rethink your own process. That will be very great. So looking at my notes here, the learnings. So Benjamin started with his definition of new work or, um, other words to say future of work, uh, to get to more humanized work and um, yeah, answer the question, what we can do to get to a healthier, fulfilling, more fulfilling work. That was quite interesting. And yeah, he also deep dived into his topic, new performance was the target to create a healthier life with more energy your mind, um, by using the new flexibility options of modern work. That’s really interesting.

Mirko (00:41:46) – And I can tell you from my own experience that his impulses really helped me to optimize my workflow throughout the whole day and, uh, integrate a little bit of sports in the morning there and enjoy the time with the family and use the flexibility which modern work may offer today to us as well, or can offer. He told us about the two pillars of new performance on the one inside purpose and that perfectly matches to the new process principle to give meaning to processes. That’s really nice and I think a deep dive topic for the next episode. And then the second pillar was, was regards to creating work cultures and routines that help to get to a better healthy work life, uh, by taking individual needs into account. And that is also another match with new process principles, taking needs of the people into account when designing processes.

Mirko (00:42:52) – So very good and uh, definitely good ideas there. And I also asked him about his ideas to rethink processes and there he pointed out on the one inside to involve the people into the development of the process, and that’s perfect. Another match with one of the new process principles. And he told us a lot about purpose, individual purpose, team purpose, and yeah, what is the impact of what we are doing and what we want to achieve. So defining this purpose and the impact of what we want to do, um, as something that can be used to, to motivate the people. And yeah, the idea is if the people know why we are doing something, then this will definitely help them to be motivated to work in the process. For example, you also talked about the inner and the outer perspective of how to develop purpose. And um, yeah, this will then be the deep dive topic for the next episode. So there, um, I’m going to explain you in more detail how to develop a process purpose and how to use that, what is good for, and there are many other exciting topics coming up, like how human-centric b p m can look like in practice or how to stay at the very front of the BPM development. So stay tuned. Thank you very much. Bye-bye. On .

Mirko (00:44:41) – Okay. Before you leave, if you enjoyed this podcast, it would be really great if you can leave review on your favorite platform. Um, this would especially help to boost the start of the podcast. So please, if you like what you heard, leave a review, and if you did not like what you heard, then feel free just to send me a feedback, send me an email to and I would be very thankful to get your feedback and to integrate that into the next episodes. So have a great day. Bye-bye.


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  1. […] to episode 4 of the New Process Podcast with Benjamin Rolff and learn more about the topic of purpose or watch […]

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