How Process Mining takes BPM to a whole new level with Wil van der Aalst
#032 Let’s deep dive into the topic of process mining with the godfather of process mining himself.
In this episode, I’m taking a closer look at process mining and how it can help to take BPM to the next level. To do this, I had the honour of talking to the godfather of Process Mining himself: Wil van der Aalst!
In addition to Wil’s experiences and recommendations on how to get people involved in process mining activities, we’re also discussing what the future of process mining and BPM might look like, and how Wil sees the influence of AI on BPM and work in general.
Today’s Guest:
Wil van der Aalst
Wil is Alexander-von-Humboldt professor at RWTH Aachen University, Chief Scientist at Celonis, and is also known as the “Godfather of Process Mining”.
He studied Computer Science at Eindhoven University of Technology and received his PhD in mathematics in 1992.
Wil is a thought leader, author, and speaker in the fields of data science, business process management, and process mining and Wil is one of the most cited computer scientists in the world.
He is father of four children and he is living with his wife and their dog in Aachen. Besides all his professional roles, he also likes to hike – for example in the Alps.
You’ll learn:
- How to involve the people working in the processes in process mining activities
- How to convince top management to invest in process mining
- What Wil expects for the next 10 years to come in the area of BPM
- How Wil sees the influence of AI on BPM and work in general
- What Wil’s experiences with being sensitive to different cultures, the uniqueness of people, and their needs in the context of processes are
- What Wil’s top recommendations on how to rethink processes are
- Where to learn more and how to start with process mining
Resources
- Wil’s LinkedIn Profile
- vdaalst.com
- processmining.org
- His Online Course on Coursera
- Summer School: Handbook of process mining
- ProM
- pm4py
Get notified about new episodes:
Transcript
Please note that the transcript was generated automatically and only slightly adjusted. It does not claim to be a perfect transcription.
MIRKO
Welcome to episode 32 of the New Process Podcast. Today we’re going to talk about how Process Mining takes BPM to a whole new level. Therefore, I have the honor of speaking with Professor Dr. Wil van der Aalst. Wil is Alexander-von-Humboldt professor at RWTH Aachen university, chief scientist at Celonis, chair of the president data science group, group lead at Fraunhofer institute of applied information technology member of the board of governors at Tilburg university board? Member of a number of functions at RWTH Aachen University, adjunct professor at Queensland University of Technology, full professor at Eindhoven University of Technology, and he is also known as the Godfather of Process Mining. Wil studied computer science at Eindhoven University of Technology and received his PhD in Mathematics in 1992. Wil is thought leader, author and speaker in the fields of data science, business process management, and process mining. And Wil is one of the most cited computer scientists in the world. He even has his own Wikipedia article where I realized that we both have our birthday on 29 January. How cool is that? Wil is father of four children, and he’s living with his wife and their dog in Aachen. Besides all his professional roles, he also likes to hike, for example, in the Alps. In the interview, we talk about Wil’s experiences and recommendations on how to involve the people working in the process in process mining activities. We talk about Wil’s recommendations on how to convince top management to invest in process mining. He provides an outlook into the future of process mining and BPM in general. And we talk about how Wil seize the influence of artificial intelligence on BPM and work in general in this context. He also provides an interesting example of object centric process mining. At Lufthansa Group, we talk about his top recommendations on how to rethink process, and he shares where to learn more and how to start with process mining. So enjoy the interview with Wil van der Aalst.
MIRKO
Yeah. Welcome to the new Process Podcast. Wil. It’s great to have you here. Such an honor. And I’m really looking forward to learn more about process mining from the Godfather of Process Mining. So welcome, Wil.
WIL
It’s a joy to be here. Thank you.
MIRKO
Yeah. Cool. Then let’s dive right into the check in. What do you prefer in an aircraft aisle or window seat?
WIL
I always sit on the aisle side, and it’s not because I have to go to the toilet often. I sit on the aisle side because at least then you have one arm that you can use when you’re working on your laptop.
MIRKO
Yeah, that’s so true. That’s very good. And what is your favorite airport?
WIL
I Think the one that I have like the deepest memories and that I kind of enjoy a lot is in Singapore. And the reason is that I’ve been flying a lot to QT in Brisbane. So then I would fly from Europe to Brisbane and it’s a very long flight and I would always stop in Singapore. And then there is a gym there, right? So you could go into the gym, you can get a shower and then you can continue. And I never did that at any other airport. I only did it there. And it has nice memories.
MIRKO
Yeah, for sure. That’s good to know. Cool. And what was the best process you have ever experienced?
WIL
So the problem with processes is that you only really can tell that they are there when they don’t work.
MIRKO
Right.
WIL
I think most people have the most vivid memories of processes that do not work well. Also, moving from the Netherlands to Germany, taking a family, having multiple houses, et cetera, can tell a lot about processes that do not work. But to name a positive example of like in this transition, we had a holiday house in the Eiffel, that’s like an area in Germany and we sold that house because we now had another house in Germany. And that has been the best process that I’ve ever seen. I asked the broker, I want to sell this house, can you take care of it? And the person or less took care of it from beginning to end.
MIRKO
Right.
WIL
I think it was a great experience. I’ve worked with other brokers and that was not so smooth.
MIRKO
Yeah. So you ordered it and in the end you just had to sign the contract and that’s it.
WIL
Exactly.
MIRKO
Right. Yeah, perfect. That’s how it should be. Yeah. Very good. Yeah. Cool. Then let’s get closer to the topic and I would like to know how would you describe your relationship to processes? And I’m really curious how you are going to describe that.
WIL
I think my relationship to process is very like what many other people think and do with processes. I always think that other people should follow the process, but I myself see that I’m often taking shortcuts when I have to do something. And I think that’s the problem that you often see with processes, we want other people to follow exactly the process, et cetera, but we ourselves always think that we have exceptions. I’m fascinated by processes. Like, I often like to think about the 80 20 rule. That’s kind of something that I start to appreciate a lot by doing process mining is that if you talk about a process, it’s always very simple.
MIRKO
Right.
WIL
And what you can describe very quickly is covering 80% of all the behavior, et cetera, but all the problems and all the nastiness is in the remaining 20% that is causing all of the problems, et cetera. And I think that after all these years, is still fascinating that that phenomenon is always there. Somehow there are processes, everybody thinks it’s simple. And then you start looking at the data, you realize often it’s simple, but in the remaining 20% there is a lot of drama there.
MIRKO
Yeah, absolutely. That’s already perfect introduction to process mining, I would say. But how would you describe what process mining is?
WIL
To my eleven-year-old daughter, I do not know what her interests are, but one of the way that I often like to describe it because it kind of shows also how important it is. I think many people have a notion of what a spreadsheet is. Right. With the spreadsheet you can do anything. With numbers, you can add up numbers, do lots of stuff with numbers. I would like to think of process mining is the same as a spreadsheet, but then you’re not working with numbers, you are working with events, so things that have happened. So the input for process mining is not numbers, but things that have happened. And then using process mining technology, you can get lots of, let’s say, value and results out of that. So you can find out what people are really doing, where they are deviating, where the real bottlenecks are, et cetera. So it’s a very powerful technology that is very generic. And I think often if you try to use an example to explain process mining, you’re immediately limiting the scope. The same as if you would say, yeah, I have a spreadsheet and I can use that to analyze my cash register or something like that. It becomes very small while it’s a very broad technology.
MIRKO
Okay, I’ll try that out later and ask her if she gets an idea of process mining. That’s very good. So, as you know, I’m doing a lot of research on how to get to a more human centric BPM approach. And at the first glance, it might be a little bit contradicting talking about process mining on the one hand side and trying to get a more human centric approach. But how did you manage it to get people, the people working in the process excited about process mining to contribute to the projects, to the activities?
WIL
Yes, I think that that’s a very good question. I think the first thing is that processes have a lot more variability than people designing information systems like to think.
MIRKO
Right.
WIL
And I think people tend to work around systems in various ways because the system is very limiting and they find all kinds of creative ways of working around it. What I think is a much better solution is that you provide more flexibility so you don’t hard code certain rules and certain processes, et cetera. So you allow much more flexibility, but then you start analyzing what people are actually doing. As I said, I do not think that doing process mining is kind of that it becomes less human. I think flexibility and process mining go hand in hand. Like another thing that I think is very important is that we like to think about machine learning these days, where machine learning is automatically making decisions. I think process mining, although in certain stages of the process mining process, you can also apply machine learning. I think process mining is very different because it emphasizes that you are looking at models that people can interpret. And I think we always like to think that people do not like that. But I think in general, if people are working in a process, I think they are very interested in seeing what the process really is, especially if they see just a small part of it. So I think like flexibility and transparency, I think are features that also help to strength more. The human role in this, one of the terms that we often use is what we call hybrid intelligence, where you combine machine intelligence with, let’s say, human intelligence, where there are certain things where humans are very good at, there are other things where machines are very good at. And I think process mining is a kind of technology where you really need to have both. My recent favorite examples would be related to what happened with COVID with the supply chain crisis, et cetera, et cetera. Machine learning did not play a role, right, because it was a new situation. There was no data. But at the same time, humans empowered with information, what is now really the status of my supply chain? What is really going on? And then making, let’s say, informed decisions. On top of that, I think these examples show that this combination is probably the best that one can get.
MIRKO
Okay, that sounds very good. And what would you recommend to a process owner on how to involve the people working in his process into process mining project?
WIL
Yes, I think that first, perhaps what I’ve observed is that, and that sounds horrible, that it’s very good to approach process mining in a top down fashion. Right? I’ve seen many examples where process mining starts like a bottom up initiative. As if somebody says, hey, I’ve seen this technology that’s super cool, let’s try to apply that. But the bottom line is that using process mining you always see problems, right? So it is in a way like it’s a negative technology. Through process mining, you don’t find any problems. If you don’t have any problems, you don’t need process mining. So that’s why I think it’s very important to make process mining a success, to approach it in a top down manner. And I don’t mean that in a negative sense, I mean that in the sense that you first need to agree that you would like to improve something and that you would first like to collect the data and then get these things started. I think that that’s like, I think a very important lesson that I’ve learned that without top level management support, it is very difficult because you find trouble, right? And like, who is interesting in finding problems, right? It’s something that you need to think about very carefully. That’s I think one thing, the other thing that I think is not used enough and that would be very useful is like process mining is providing a level of transparency that could be much more accessible to the people working in the process. So if you’re working in an organization that is delivering certain services or something like that, or you work in a production facility, why not show like process mining results in the canteen life? How is the process going? So that people see a connection between what they are doing and what is actually visualized. And this is not to, let’s say, reveal privacy related things or to blame people, but just to create awareness that using process mining you can make visible what you can normally not see. And that has value in itself. So I think having high level management support and creating transparency are things that are very important. But that’s more on the way that you organize process mining in an organization. Like another thing that I’ve clearly seen and also data is supporting that. If you have, let’s say, companies that have a process mining center of competence, they are more successful than organizations that do not have that. And the reason why I think that that is the case is what I referred to earlier. Process mining is a very generic technology, right? So you can apply it everywhere. So from an investment point of view, it is not very smart to think of process mining. Okay, I now do a project and I use process mining software. I think process mining should be seen as something that is continuous. You do it all the time and you don’t do it for one process. You do it for as many processes as possible. So it is like more a way of life in an organization. And I think to transfer that spirit that people really care about, the quality of the processes that they are involved in, I think is something that could potentially be incredibly powerful if you just see it as, okay, this is yet another project that is running for a couple of months that Wil fail. That Wil definitely not work. I’ll take a sip of coffee. Cheers.
MIRKO
Absolutely.
MIRKO
And I was super happy when I realized that process mining is out there now because we as BPM guys can finally generate data which we can then use to calculate business cases. And it was always hard in the past to convince top management to invest into something if you don’t have numbers. But now my question there would be what is your experience with convincing top management to invest in process mining? Because then you need a license and you first have to build up people that are able to apply process mining. You have to get all the data in this already costs a lot of money before you get real results out of it. What is your experience there in convincing top management to invest?
WIL
People are always interested in a big business case, right. And I think that is not always the best motivation. At the same time, if you compare it to classical BPPM, I think making that business case is much easier.
MIRKO
Right.
WIL
Because I’ve also been involved in projects where lots of people would be modeling processes and having workshops, et cetera, and it was completely unclear what the outcome would be.
MIRKO
Yeah.
WIL
So I think process mining has kind of made BPM sexy again, and because it is evidence driven. So let’s say, how to convince top management. I think that varies from organization to organization. But what I indicated earlier, I think it’s very important to not start using process mining with ID. I’m now going to analyze this process and then I’m done. I think it’s a generic technology that you should apply continuous at a large scale. Of course, let’s say license cost and training, et cetera, are an issue. At the same time, if one looks at the costs, I think the costs are very reasonable, but it has to become the new normal. So one could ask to say I’ve often spoken in companies for in a larger company, you would speak for 106 Sigma Black Belts, right. Having two day workshop, and I have to give a keynote there. And then I was always wondering, okay, who is now paying for this? Right?
MIRKO
What?
WIL
Was there a business case? Probably not, but it had become, let’s say, the normal thing to do. And my hope is that let’s say, Proza mining Wil get a similar role. And I think especially, let’s say, in the Netherlands, in Germany, et cetera, it is becoming something like that. That is the normal thing to do. It’s part of the infrastructure. But there are, of course, many parts in the world where that is not the case yet.
MIRKO
Yeah. And do you see a trend that now top management, because they know each other, they are playing golf together, they are talking about process mining already. Or are we not that far right now?
WIL
As I said, I think it varies very much from country to country. If you look in the Dutch and German setting, I think that is very much the case. Right. That is not an unknown thing. In many other countries, that is not the case yet, and the hope that that Wil change. So, of course, an interesting question is like why is, let’s say, in this part of Europe, why is it so much further than in many other parts of the country? But if you think about process thinking in general, look where SAP is based, et cetera, I think we have also a kind of tradition which explains why it has started here. At the same time, I just look at a country like Japan or something like that. There are other countries where, from a cultural point of view, it would also fit perfectly to lift process mining to a much higher level. And there it is simply that it is not widely applied simply because people do not know it exists, right?
MIRKO
Yeah.
WIL
If they know it exists, they Wil definitely consider it.
MIRKO
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Super cool. I love this development and for me, process mining has taken BPM to a whole new level throughout the last ten years and I’m super thankful for all your efforts there. Pushing that ahead. Looking ten years into the future, what are your expectations of where this Wil lead to?
WIL
Like, hopefully process mining is getting new normal. I think also this is something that I’m working on myself a lot is what we call object centric process mining. The classical way in which that you use process mining is that you go to your source systems, you extract data from it, you automatically build a model and based on the model you see where are my compliance and performance problems? I think that works very well in many settings. But to, let’s say, lift a level of maturity, I think it becomes very important that organizations are trying to build up, let’s say, data related to their events and their objects without having a specific analysis in mind. Think about many organizations are using many systems. In each of these systems, there are sometimes tens of thousands of tables filled with information where it is unclear if you would now like to run this organization, you would like to improve it, you have no idea where you would start and where you would end, et cetera. I think the trend that I see is that process mining could become a layer on top of existing systems. But this requires that we first extract the data in a system neutral way. It should not depend on this is SAP this version, this is Oracle that version, or something like that. I think we should extract data at the right level that we would like to see if we talk about process improvement and then use object centric process mining to basically generate views on demand, looking at a process from a particular angle. And I really expect that that is something that is going to change the market very quickly.
MIRKO
Okay, yeah, that’s super interesting. And I remember discussions we had at Lufthansa how to get the data from the different systems onto a meter level to be able to mine the data then. Okay, that’s going to into that direction.
MIRKO
That’s super cool.
MIRKO
Okay. And what trends do you see regarding artificial intelligence? There Chat GPT and so on combined.
WIL
With process mining, because you just mentioned Lulu Thompson. I gave a talk there, I think two months ago at one of their main conferences. And we have been analyzing various processes in Lufthansa. There are the standard things like the order to cash and the standard financial processes. But we have also been analyzing in Frankfurt and Munich, like the events that take place between when a plane is landing and when it takes off again, right? And you would think naively, I did not think that there would be lots of events available, but there are surprisingly many events available. So that the gate open, gate close, boarding starts, boarding ends, luggage loading starts, luggage loading is completing, the cleaning crew goes in, et cetera, et cetera. So it’s fascinating to see how many events are being recorded. And for me, that is a very interesting process. Like, unlike the financial processes that are often very sequential, is that all of these things are happening at the same time, right? So passengers are boarding while the plane is being refueled, luggage is loaded and unloaded. So all of this is happening at the same time. And if one of these things doesn’t work, the flight gets delayed, and if it’s the first flight in the morning, it still has eight flights to go. You can imagine if, I don’t know, the cleaning crew is not there in time, the whole, like on all kinds of other airports, lots of chaos is being created. I think that’s a super nice example of process mining that is very different, where it also shows that the value of seeing what is actually going on. In this example, if you think about it in an object centric sense, you can see that just seeing this as a case is very narrow. It’s much more diverse because, I don’t know, the crew that is opening the gate is not working on a single plane, right? They have to be at many places at the same time, et cetera, et cetera. So you can only analyze that in a holistic way and I find that fascinating. Now, to come to the question about machine learning. If you think about, let’s say, general machine learning, I think that many organizations, like I Wil talk about Chat GPT in a minute, but if one think about the normal neural network stuff, I think many organizations, they feel that they should do something with it, but they have no idea how to get started. And the reason is that people think, okay, you train the neural network and it does whatever you want it to do. It is not so simple. So if you have SAP with 800,000 tables, there is not that you push a button and now improve my process and it Wil do something. I think people are very naive that they see we need to do something with machine learning, but they do not know where to start. And I think process mining is a very powerful technology to create machine learning problems. And when I say problems, I mean it positively that using process discovery, doing conformance, checking, doing bottleneck analysis, et cetera, et cetera, you can collect the data and then automatically turn them into machine learning problems. So this Wil allow you to diagnose why there are certain compliance problems. This allows you to diagnose why there are certain bottlenecks. This allows you to predict how long a case is still running. So it opens up all these possibilities. And you can only articulate the problem itself if you have done first process mining. And if you think about process discovery, conformance checking and all of these things, they are very different from neural networks. So I think it’s very important that people understand process mining is related to machine learning. But at the same time, the techniques that are used inside are very different from neural networks, et cetera. Let’s say talking about a standard way of applying machine learning algorithms. Of course, what we have witnessed in the last half year is like there is now something really fundamentally changing with the large language models, right? It’s visible for everybody. Everybody in the street is talking about it. This is fascinating how these large language models are, let’s say, flexible, and you can basically apply them to anything and it Wil generate something. So on the one hand, I’m a bit skeptical. If you want to use a calculator, use a calculator, right? Don’t start using something generative. And I think many of the problems that organizations are facing, I think it’s better that they use a calculator rather than they start using something sophisticated. We know that 60% of all containers are shipped empty and you’re interested in machine learning, et cetera, et cetera. First, address these problems. And only when you have to address these problems, focus on the rest. On the one hand, I’m skeptical in the sense that I think there is so much low hanging fruit that you can apply with, let’s say, standard process mining tools where you don’t want to use that. Also, what I said earlier, the link to machine learning, what I always say, only do machine learning if you have done the other stuff, you need to do the other stuff. You cannot start with machine learning that doesn’t work. So that is the skeptical part. The more optimistic part is it Wil probably change a lot the way that people are interacting with, for example, process mining software. I think this technology Wil help us to formulate questions in natural language, just like so at this point in time, chat GPT is very good at generating SQL code, right? We are now also, let’s say, looking at implementations of automatically generating Ppql code. For example, in the context of Solonus, however, you formulate a query, a natural language, and it is translated in, let’s say, very complicated queries. Of course, one should always be careful because if you don’t understand, let’s say, the output and you don’t check it, it can also be very misleading. I think the way that we interact Wil change, but I think in many organizations there is a lot of other low hanging fruit. That’s happening, of course, having said that and going a bit outside of the process mining space, of course this is going to change many jobs. Not so much the people managing the processes, but there Wil be many tasks in these processes which are now done by, I don’t know, ten people that in the future Wil be done by three people just because they become much more efficient. I think this Wil be a real change in the working place that many, let’s say, jobs Wil completely change.
MIRKO
Yeah, absolutely. That’s definitely a topic, for sure. And I also learned that AI is not very good with regards to emotions. So especially talking about human centric BPM, there is still a chance that we have to fight even if Chat GPT is there and is applied, for sure. So one of the new process principles is to encourage diversity and inclusion through processes. And I would be really interested in your view onto this completely different topic. So what are your experiences with regards to being sensitive to different cultures, the uniqueness of people and their specific needs in the context of processes?
WIL
In the context of process, I’m not so sure. Of course, if you look at teams, like I think that has been shown often before, is that it is very good to have diversity in teams, right? And also if I look at I work in an area which is very much male dominated, so if I teach my classes, I don’t know, 80% is male, 20% is female. However, I look in my research group, it’s much more balanced, right? So there is a gender balance. And also in my group, I think there are less than half of the people are from Germany. So it’s quite diverse and I can see the importance of that. At the same time, it is not so clear like what kind of implications that would have for if you talk about in general about process technology, right? I think it’s very important to build diverse teams. I think it’s also more fun to work, but at the same time what it means, like in terms of, for example, tool support or something like that, it is not so clear, like research wise. But that’s a different topic a bit. And I’m also teaching that I’ve been working on what we call responsible data science. That is where we, for example, look at issues like fairness, right? If you make certain conclusions about people, are these conclusions fair? And there we, for example, look at decision processes under certain constraints. For example, that like a German person has an equal probability of getting admitted to university as a non German person. Right. You can extend your algorithms with these types of things. That is something that I find intriguing. At the same time, it is still very far away from real applications, I feel.
MIRKO
Yeah, okay, yeah. We’ll see how this Wil develop in the future. That’s. Super interesting and applying your overall experience onto rethinking processes. So to get to a more human centric process management approach and to inspire people for processes, what are your top three recommendations?
WIL
I think I’ve mentioned a few of them.
MIRKO
Right.
WIL
So first of all, for organizations, don’t see it as a project, see it as something that is ongoing. It’s a way of life. You need to create a culture where people really want processes to be better, not so much of increasing, let’s say, yet another business case. Right? I think that is more at the organizational level than more at the personal level. I think it is inevitable that we go towards a more data driven society. Whether we like it or not, data Wil increasingly play a role and I think in that setting I think education is super important. Right. Like I see now, a bit of problem and also see that with my students is that many people start using, for example, machine learning and AI as a black box. I think that that’s a very bad development. Right. People should really be able to understand what is going on and use that. So this would be my main point.
MIRKO
Right, okay, cool. Well, thank you so much for all these insights. Where can our listeners learn more about your activities? I know there are a lot of sources out there, but what’s the first one you would direct listeners to?
WIL
I cannot stop at one. Right. So if I would make a list that there is my own website, vdalst.com or Dead is the way you find many things I think many people are not aware of that. There is this website Processmining.org, which provides many pointers to data set software, et cetera, et cetera. There are several, let’s say, online courses. So I created a coursera course based on my book a few years ago. I think if you’re interested in the foundations, I think it’s still very valid. We are also, let’s say, currently working on several Edx courses that are new. What is also interesting but is more for the people that more want to specialize in this topic. There is also we organized the summer school here in Aachen last summer and there is something called the Handbook of Process Mining and this is open Access. Let’s say the top lecturers in the field of process mining all came to Ahh and gave the lectures based on that. And based on that we have created the book and videos. I think there are lots of, let’s say, ways that you can either go at an introductory level or go much deeper these days. There’s lots of information available.
MIRKO
Okay, I’m going to put all the links into the show notes so it’s easier for the listeners to find the sources. Thank you. That’s very good. And one of my last questions in every interview is always do you have a recommendation at which tool or method or to which expert I should talk to, get more ideas to rethink processes.
WIL
So I think it’s very important that you like, I could not name a single expert, I would say. Right. There are lots of great academics working in this field. There are also, let’s say, many great practitioners. And, like, naming one would be very difficult. I think that it’s very important to really understand the technology to make your hands dirty yourself.
MIRKO
Right.
WIL
And there are several, let’s say, tools available, like many of the commercial companies are, let’s say, providing, let’s say, easy access that you can just play with it. There are also, of course, things like Prom and PM for Pi, so open access. So I would highly recommend people to just do it themselves on their own Mickey Mouse examples.
MIRKO
Right.
WIL
I think that is doing it yourself and experiencing it, I think Wil give you a much better insight than that. Somebody talks about it, you need to experience it that you can see what is now the connection between the real data that you can look at and what comes out of it. And if you have to do it yourself to understand that relationship, it’s not that somebody can talk about it and that you would then understand it. That’s why I point people more back to themselves rather than to some guru or expert.
MIRKO
Yeah, that’s very good. And I can fully confirm that because I, in the past, did the same. We just exported data from our own tool, from the process we were working on, and imported that into a process mining tool. And results were eye opening and surprising how easy it is and how fascinating it can be to dive deeper into the connections and find out why we have this here and so on. So, absolutely. That’s a perfect recommendation. Thank you very much. Before we leave the aircraft, before we finish this episode, is there anything else you would like to share with our listeners?
WIL
Not really, no.
MIRKO
Okay, perfect. Doesn’t have to be. And finally, how would you describe your flight experience here today? With just three words?
WIL
Yeah, I’m very bad at saying things in three words, but I flew a plane myself for the first time.
MIRKO
Okay.
WIL
I think two weeks ago or so. Two weeks ago I flew it myself here near Aachen. And this conversation was much easier than flying plane. It was great talking to you. I think I always value, let’s say, people like you that are, let’s say, helping to make this topic more visible. As I said, in my part of the world, it is very visible, but I think there are many parts in the world or many communities where it is not visible enough. So I really appreciate that you’re doing that.
MIRKO
Thank you so much. I will keep on pushing BPM ahead. And thank you so much, Wil, for being my guest and sharing all your knowledge here on the New process Podcast. So have a great day. Bye bye.
WIL
Thank you. Bye bye.
SPEAKER A
Let’s recap today’s new process inspiration.
MIRKO
Yeah, what an honor to have Wil as guest in New Process Podcast. I’m super grateful for all the work he’s doing to, as he said, make BPM sexy. So in my perception, thanks to process mining, BPM is finally a topic also top management is talking about. So that’s why I’m super thankful for all his work here and I hope this Wil push BPM further ahead in the future. So recapping the interview. What really stays in my mind the most is his statement that process mining Wil become the new normal as a tool for continual improvement. So we’ll see how this Wil really work out, because investing into process mining is still an investment which has to be done, but hopefully with enough attention, this Wil not be a question in the future anymore. So with regards to human centric BPM approach, I find his view important, that process mining creates transparency which is necessary to make educated decisions and that fully fits to the new process principles here. And yeah, I can agree that process mining really helps to create transparency on processes. And this becomes more and more important in a data driven society for which we have to prepare and educate ourselves. So I can only support his recommendation to learn more about process mining, try it out yourself and experience process mining on your own. You’ll find all the links he recommends in the Show Notes, which you can easily get to by following newprocesslab.com episode 32. In the next episode, which will be another expert interview, we’re going to talk about change in complex organizations and there we’ll also talk about process mining in this context. So super cool practical example as well. But for now, thank you much for listening.
MIRKO
Have a great day. Bye bye.
MIRKO
Before you leave.
Process mining is one way to improve processes, but there are many other ways. So if you like to get more ideas on how to rethink processes, you can download my free New Process Checklist, which provides a lot of impulses on how to push your process to the next level. To download it, just go to Newprocesslab.com checklist. Have a great day. Bye.
3 Responses
[…] Listen to the episode of the New Process Podcast here. […]
Thanks for this.. awesome !
Thank you very much, Sudarshan! 🙂