How to improve your process modeling to get people excited with Kevin Tan
#031 Let’s find out how the concept of process-bility can help you to improve your process modeling.
In this episode, I’m talking to Kevin Tan and his concept of process-bility. With the help of three elements process modeling can be made easier for people to understand, so that they can get more excited about processes in the first place. Let’s find out how to implement these elements to our process models.
Today’s Guest:
Kevin Tan
Kevin Tan started his career as an analyst programmer and business analyst and evolved over 25+ years into a Senior Business Process Analyst and Thought Leader in Process Modeling.
Today, he is working for Greater Western Water in Australia, before this he worked for a number of companies in industries such as insurance, supply chain, utilities, technology, education, and telecommunications in Singapore, Taiwan, Thailand, Malaysia, and the UK.
If you are interested in process modeling, you definitely have to follow him on LinkedIn where he shares a lot about the concept of process-bility.
You’ll learn
- How to get people excited by improving your process modeling with process-bility
- What the core elements of process-bility are
- How to apply process-bility to your own process models
Resources
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Transcript
Please note that the transcript was generated automatically and only slightly adjusted. It does not claim to be a perfect transcription.
Mirko Kloppenberg
Yeah. Welcome to episode 31 of the new Process podcast. Today it’s all about how to improve your process modeling to get people excited. Therefore, I’m talking with Kevin Tan. If you are interested in process modeling, you definitely have to follow Kevin Tan on LinkedIn. And now he is pushing his BPM journey even further with Process-bility. He calls it the tau of business process modeling. And today we are going to find out what that really is. Kevin started his career as an analyst, programmer and business analyst and evolved over 25 more years into a Senior Business Process Analyst and thought leader in process modeling. Today, he’s working for Greater Western Water in Australia. Before this, he worked for a number of companies and industries such as insurance, supply chain, utilities, technology, education and telecommunications in Singapore, Taiwan, Thailand, Malaysia and in the UK. So today you’ll learn how to get people excited by improving your process modeling. With Process-bility, you’ll learn what the core elements of process-bility are and how to apply process-bility to your own process models. So enjoy the interview with Kevin Tan.
Mirko Kloppenberg
Yeah. Welcome to the new process, podcast. Kevin I’m super curious to learn more about procesability and what that really is. So welcome, Kevin.
Kevin Tan
Thank you. Thank you, McCall, for inviting me to your podcast. I’ve been watching you for more than a year now.
Mirko Kloppenberg
Oh, cool. That’s great. I’m also following you for more than a year on LinkedIn and I always liked your posts on how to map processes. And now you came up with Process-bility, what we want to talk about today. But before we dive into the content, let’s start with a brief check in. What do you prefer in an aircraft aisle or window seat?
Kevin Tan
Window 100%.
Mirko Kloppenberg
Okay.
Kevin Tan
Why is because when I take airplane, I can actually stay there for 8 hours. I don’t have to go to the toilet. So if I sit on the window seat, I’m not going to disturb others and I prefer not to be being disturbed. So I just need to sleep to the fly. That’s why windows it for me.
Mirko Kloppenberg
Yeah. Okay, that’s good. That’s interesting. And what is your favorite airport?
Kevin Tan
My favorite airport is Singapore Changi Airport.
Mirko Kloppenberg
Okay. I’ve never been there, but I know several of my guests already mentioned that that is their favorite airport and I think I have to go there as well.
Kevin Tan
Yes. It’s like a mega shopping center. Doesn’t look like an airport. It’s like a mega mall. Okay, yes.
Mirko Kloppenberg
Okay. Maybe I go there without my wife. But we were talking about flying into that direction next year in summer, so see, that’s cool. Okay, and what was the best process you have ever experienced?
Kevin Tan
I think I couldn’t recall any best process from the consumer. When I experienced something, I always think that there’s something not right. But if they do something different here and there, they’re always not joined it together. From the customer perspective. Yes. I never get the best process. No.
Mirko Kloppenberg
Okay, that’s interesting. So let’s continue with the follow up question there. How would you describe your relationship to processes then? I’m super curious how you describe that.
Kevin Tan
I would say my relationship with process. Or maybe I should say we process modeling, not process. It started when I was a programmer. My first job when I was 18 years old. I think 18 years old, I work as a programmer. That is how I first have the relationship with a process model. Because I’m writing some program, I need to explain to my colleague, hey, is this how we doing it? Rather than writing in the pseudo code, I start writing like a flowchart diagram to explain the idea or the problem. So that is the first time I have a relationship with my process modeling. After which I become a system analyst, business analyst, It consultant, how do you call it, 15 years back in Singapore. So I realized process modeling is always one of the tool that I need to use to communicate with my stakeholder, with the programmer, with the business person, with another business analyst, or with anyone. I realize using the modeling is the easiest ways to communicate.
Mirko Kloppenberg
Yeah, that’s true. That’s super cool. I already introduced well, I mentioned process-bility in the introduction and I’d love to learn more. So, what is process-bility all about?
Kevin Tan
Process-bility is laying BB should start with what is not process-bility. Okay. Process-bility is not about a particular notation or BPMN, or UPN or flowchart. It’s not about that process. PD is about some very basic common sense technique that we can apply to any process modeling notation. Yes. So the tricky concept is storytelling. So what it means is that the process model must able to tell the story so the relevant stakeholder can understand it. So the storytelling, not just for a business analyst, can be for a CEO, to the operation manager, or even to the guy who performed that process. So we must tell the story so that everyone can understand be a technical stakeholder or a business stakeholder or someone he just do not know what you guys is doing. So had to do that. So it’s storytelling. Number two is visual balance. Visual balance is crucial for any process modeling notation. Because modeling is visual.
Mirko Kloppenberg
Right?
Kevin Tan
That’s all you call it model. If not visual, just described in word, in English, or in a song. But it’s a visual. So visual balance, in simple words is that we must visually present the thing so that people can just read it effortlessly. So that means like reading without reading. Just like an A you briefing. You don’t even realize the A. So then you can focus on doing your real job rather than focus on trying to brief in, brief out, like swimming underwater. So a good visual balance. I mean, you help the reader to focus on the real problem rather than try to understand the model. So that is visual balance. The third one is called simplicity. Simplicity means that I have realized a lot of notation out there. People have used it. They try to explain the thing, like using three steps to explain one step, or just like just make the thing too complicated. So simply is but try to based on whatever notation you use, you have to use the most simple way to represent the business process. But having said that, having said that, when we make a business process model simple doesn’t mean that we make it simpler than the actual process. No, a process is complex. We will represent it as a complex process. But simplicity means make it easy to understand a complex process. Like, Merco, you are handsome, right? So if I take a photo of you, it’s like modeling. So people look at it. Yes, it’s exactly like, Merco is very handsome. Look at the eye he gets. In order to make it simple, I make you look different. Make it so simple. This is not the real story. You need to tell the truth in a simple way.
Mirko Kloppenberg
Okay. Yeah. That’s super fascinating. We have to deep dive into all these three fundamental principles of possibility. And I already had an interview about story listening in the past, which was super interesting. I haven’t heard about that. I heard about storytelling. I have an idea, but what is your definition of storytelling and how does this contribute to process-bility? Can you give an example there?
Kevin Tan
I would say, okay, storytelling is that when what I see is that when it comes to process modeling, many modeling make the mistake, try to tell so many things on one page. So storytelling is more about telling one story at a time. So every story, just like a Hollywood movie, you have a start and meter what has happened and what is the end and what is the outcome. So we can apply the same concept in process modeling, storytelling, that’s it. Start, middle, end. What is the outcome? And all the story is one chapter. Then you can form the story to become a book. Now you get the end to end story.
Mirko Kloppenberg
Yeah. Okay.
Kevin Tan
This is about storytelling.
Mirko Kloppenberg
Yeah. Okay. I’m just thinking about modeling workshop I had a few days ago, where we in the end mapped goods receiving process. It’s a super cool story. So from the receiving of the goods, checking it and booking it into the system and so on. But I think this process even able to tell more than one story because there could be different use cases going through that process. Could be incoming goods from a supplier or from another location of the company and then you have to process the incoming goods somehow in a slightly different way. But that would be still possible to have different types of use cases in one story, in one process model from your perspective?
Kevin Tan
Yes.
Mirko Kloppenberg
There’s a standardized process there.
Kevin Tan
Yes. Because still it’s a one story. It’s just a story with some variation.
Mirko Kloppenberg
Yeah.
Kevin Tan
Okay, so you still receive the good, but the good maybe is from different dangerous good or maybe it’s special good, need to do handling, but you still need to have that story that hey, this is we receive good. So other is more like a side story. Like a variation. Yeah, in detail. It really depends on what you want to achieve of your bookshop because sometimes you want to focus on a site story because that is where the problem is. Or maybe sometimes it’s not a side story. You just want to have the main story because we are at a stage church to understand the thing without going to any version.
Mirko Kloppenberg
Yeah. Okay. And how would you map this kind of a site story in the overall story? Is there then something like a written detailed description of an activity to point out how to handle dangerous goods or how would you do that?
Kevin Tan
It depends. Let’s say for example, handle of the dangerous good is just one of the small variation. But we know that this is a big problem because six months ago someone was injured. This is big attention. So in fact okay, I will need to amplify that so I will actually map that. Hand danger is a story by itself, like a sub story in the big story so everyone can visually see what is the component that causing the problem. It really depends on what you want to achieve. Is that there’s no I always study different based on what the people want out there.
Mirko Kloppenberg
Yeah. Okay, what to tell? Okay, cool. Yes. Then the next one was visual balance.
Kevin Tan
Right.
Mirko Kloppenberg
When I was training process modelers in the past, I would say the part I loved the most was talking about aesthetic minimum requirements. And one of these requirements was if you have a process model which fills the screen and always try to center the content so not put it into the upper left corner and there you have a number of activities and that’s it. The other pages then blank put it into the middle. Is that something like visual Balance or how would you explain visual balance in detail when mapping processes?
Kevin Tan
I would say we should balance is more in this case like say for example, a simple roof from left to right. Because when we read, we usually read from left to right. So when we model must be left to right rather than left to right, then come back to the forward and turn a circle or uptown. So it’s always left to right. There’s a reason for that. So easy for it. And also I can mention a little bit of the when visual balance comes to more advanced concept, you need to balance not just the visual, it’s also the content. The content that you’re presenting will have some influence on how you want to visually present the model. The position of the line, the box, the start, every single thing, the text, this small little thing. Some people may say why you spend so much time on doing this doesn’t give any value. But that is so important. All add up is going to make a big difference to the customer experience of the business holder when they’re in the workshop. It’s going to make a big difference. The way the energy, the way they interact with you, the way they can understand, the way they answer your question rather than they get confused. It’s going to make a big difference at the end. It means that you save you a lot of money because the lesser mistake you make, the more mistake you make. They mean you have cost you more money in the future to fix the problem.
Mirko Kloppenberg
Yeah. So what would you say with regards to an example like having crossing connections? So if we have activities there and these arrows in between and then unfortunately they are crossing and they are going over another, what would you say to me? Merco.
Kevin Tan
Merkel.
Mirko Kloppenberg
How can I improve this?
Kevin Tan
No, I’m going to throw this guy a challenge. I have looked at all those crossing model. I would say 99% is avoidable only 1% sometimes. But I would say some model, they just become like I wouldn’t say they are lazy. They just do not love the job enough. I mean that they just have crossing everywhere. You just need to do some changes of the position or recut your story a little bit, then can be awarded 99%, 99% of the time.
Mirko Kloppenberg
Yeah, I agree. By switching swim lanes, for example and so on. That’s super easy. And in the end, for me, it’s like a piece of an artwork or art of process modeling to have a really good looking picture in the end.
Kevin Tan
Yes, correct. Well, I think what I want to add is that I want to let the audience know that when you hurt someone as a model, he go for visual balance. He treat this one as an artwork. That means that he’s going to spend a lot of time on it. Okay, the answer is no. As a good process model, you have to spend not much time on it, but still looks great. That is a good model. If you spend 10 hours just to make it looks good, that means you defeat the purpose. You have to make it looks good. Just as normal, just good.
Mirko Kloppenberg
On the fly.
Kevin Tan
On the fly? Yes. Have to do it on the fly.
Mirko Kloppenberg
Yes, definitely. That’s super cool. It would have been cool to got to know you 15 years ago when I was doing a lot of process on the trading. Great. That’s super cool. So the third principle was simplicity, right. Can you give us a deep dive example on that?
Kevin Tan
So say if you’re modeling using a notation, have a gateway. G-A-T-E-W like an exclusive gateway. Yes. No, blue, green, black. So you can see a lot of model actually use, say, two gateway. If this do this, then do that. So in this case, rather than using two gateway, we can just use one gateway by just spell out all the different output from the gateway. That’s it. So this is one way for simplicity. So you’re using one gateway rather than two gateway. That’s called simplicity. Another example is say, for example, in BPMN 2.0 notation, say when you want to model output document from a task. So you have like a dotted line. Then you connect to a folder. So in some cases, actually you can make the folder to indicate this folder is an output. There’s a tiny arrow. You can do it this way. So to me, that is not simplicity because it’s silly. It’s very silly because the dotted line is show that it’s an outcome from this process. Why you need to tell people to make that icon is the outflow. So this is just telling people they already know. Yeah. Another one city example of in fact is BPMN. I don’t know whether this one should go up. People will kill me. But anyway, just say they will. See how in BPMN you have a start event called message start event. And usually you connect it to an external party. So there were, let’s say, an order coming in or a complaint or the received dotted line will connect to them the start event with an envelope to show it’s a message. So for me, in this particular scenario, it’s silly. The reason is that when people read it is already some message mean message. Right. Coming from extra funny. Now when you look at the start button, you put in a message and when you try to describe it, it’s an order received. It’s like watching a movie when the hero coming here? This is the hero. And I should say he’s a hero and he played the music. He’s a hero. Yes, I already know he’s a hero. It’s obvious. Don’t tell me three times. I want to cut this one. I want to what happened to this hero? What is he doing? Don’t tell me this is a hero three times. It’s just a noise to our brain.
Mirko Kloppenberg
Yeah, okay. Yeah. Both are great examples of simplicity. That’s good. Easy to understand. Okay. And what would you say if you are going to fight for possibility now? What are the benefits of applying that for the organizations?
Kevin Tan
I would say processability going to reduce your cost. It’s going to save you a lot of money. And more than just money, the reason is say because processability we talk about simplicity, storytelling and visual balance. Once you apply this technique, it means that your model is simple to maintain, cost less money to maintain. It’s also easier to learn. That means you spend less money to train people. I mean, the thing is simple, easy to use. That means people will have less resistance, they will start using it. So that means you get success, you get more value. And also because the model is simple, that means people can use it to communicate well. Then they will make the best possible decision with the information that present in the model. So at the end, it’s so much benefit, it’s the value and the cost is so much. And this is super crucial because simplicity, process media is because if you did not do it well, everything will snowball out, become a problem. I’ll give you an example. If you are building a house, process BD actually is about that little brick, one brick. So you don’t know the right technique to build one brick, then a lot of problem can be solved. If your brick doesn’t do it well, you end up maybe your house is even cooked. No matter how. Because every brick combines become small problem become a bigger problem. Become a bigger problem.
Mirko Kloppenberg
Okay, yeah, definitely makes sense. Cool. So I’m now convinced, I would say that’s definitely something I have to take into account when mapping process. But what are the prerequisites to apply your approach? Do I have to use a special notation or can I just apply it to whatever I’m using right now? What would you recommend?
Kevin Tan
Just do whatever you are right now. Whatever modeling notation you’re using. You just need to apply this tree concept into your modeling notation. It will work.
Mirko Kloppenberg
Okay.
Kevin Tan
Yes.
Mirko Kloppenberg
Okay. That’s super interesting. I think we should think about sharing more specific examples with the community. Maybe we can record a video later on showing how visually processability process model looks like. Something like that.
Kevin Tan
Yes. I think I can show you how the visual balance can be done. Because visual balance is the easiest skill that everyone can just adapt it and learn it. It’s very easy to learn. In fact, just now you’re asking me a question. You ask me a question. Say what is the prerequisite of processability? Now? I think the prerequisite of a process BT, for a process modeler, the one one model is take away your ego. Okay. Take away your ego. That is the prerequisite of processability. Because I want to tell the audience is that process model is a different knowledge compared to other things. Because process model is visible, the model is present to you, they cannot hide anything. So take away our ego. When we look at the model, if there’s something good, learn from it. It’s a good skill, a good technique. Learn from it. If you realize I have mixed some oh, this model can do something, represent something simpler, easier compared to the way I do it. Just learn it. It’s an open book. So the only thing stopped is our ego. That stop us from learning and become better. So I have seen people as modeling like ten years, 20 years. They are not getting better because they’re just too proud to learn.
Mirko Kloppenberg
Okay, yeah, I would add to that or ask a question. I’m not sure if that’s a remark or a question. Let’s see how this will end. But we made a lot of fun about in the past was when looking at different process models, often we could say who was the modeler of that picture? So yeah, okay, you can look at the process owner and know that or something like that or the content, but independent from who is the owner and what is the content just by looking at the picture. So how the process is mapped, where the roles are and how the activities are aligned, how the arrows are between the activities and so on. So I think there has always been kind of ego of the modelers in the picture. Would you agree to that? Or is it in the end the goal to take out this individual touch out of the model?
Kevin Tan
No, I would say it’s the ego. I would say that as you say that when we look at the model, we can know the style of that process model yet I think sometimes it’s okay to have your own style a little bit. It’s for fun. Just model right. As long it doesn’t have negative impact, it’s okay. Sometimes you want to have fun in the model, it’s cool. So you have to think, okay, yeah, that’s good. It’s not about ego, just have fun and get the things done. But I disagree that actually by looking at the model you can tell I would say disagree. I want to tell you what this is what really happened. So few years ago I was mentoring another process modeler.
Mirko Kloppenberg
Yes.
Kevin Tan
So at that time I just coaching her. This is how to do the modeling. He gave me this problem. I say this is how we do it. Blah, blah, blah, blah blah no process PTA because I haven’t consolidated the idea yet. So after a while, guess what? About six months later so someone gave me this model. Look at it. I thought oh, maybe that is my model from first look because six months is true. But when I look in detail, look at the name, I say no, I have never been assigned to do this part of word of so this is not my model. So this is like someone have done something very similar to the way I think. So actually this is the person that I have coached her.
Mirko Kloppenberg
Yeah.
Kevin Tan
Yes, that’s cool. Even myself will take for the first 5 seconds I thought it’s my but when I look deeper oh no, that’s not my because there are still some thing that I will start doing differently. But from the first look it’s actually the same. Yeah, so that’s what I want to say is that with process platy actually your model, to the ordinary people, the business, they will say that actually this is from one person. This is so easy to understand, but yet individual model, you still have your own creativity, you still have fun because your little bit of your style, your signature into the model.
Mirko Kloppenberg
Yeah, okay, that’s cool. After this recording, I have a process mapping session. I try to bring that in. That’s super cool. Perfect. Okay, I think we definitely have to share a video on how this looks like later on. But I’m talking a lot about human centricity. So pushing BPM into a direction where people get excited about processes and I think processability definitely contributes to that. But what would be your three top recommendations to rethink processes, to get to a more human centric approach to inspire people for processes based on your experience?
Kevin Tan
I would say the top three. I would say that we need to know the purpose, in fact, not top three. I think just one. Just one. As a process modeler we must know what is the purpose of modeling. Yeah, I’m not talking about what is the purpose of this model A or model B. This is for the order to cash or this is called recruitment. Whatever process I’m talking what is the purpose of modeling. We must know. The purpose of the modeling can be different, depend or not. But I will say that for now, 90% of the time, the purpose of process modeling is communication. It’s for the communication between different stakeholders so they can understand a problem maybe, or maybe know what is happening. So they can know the perspective of different role within the process. So they can understand each other in a very short time. So that’s why the purpose of modeling is communication. Once we know that this is the purpose is communication, then the rest is easier. What is important for communication? So just say English is not my first language. I think English is also not your first language. McCall yeah, but we still communicate. So purpose is communication, right? We have gesture, we communicate so we don’t bother about, I say the past tense or future tense is wrong. Whatever that is, push it. Right? It’s about communication because now we communicate to save the world. Something is crashing. Now we try to communicate. So don’t talk about the right grammar. We just need to communicate a plan. We solve the problem. Done.
Mirko Kloppenberg
Yeah, perfect. That’s great. I love that. Thank you for this top recommendation there. So where can our listeners learn more about your activities about processability? Where should they go to?
Kevin Tan
I will strongly recommend them to follow my linking post and give direct message me because I have just launched my processability program. It’s a five weeks program where I will give business scenario to the participant. Then the participant can model it. Then I will give them a personalized feedback on how to use process PT to improve the readability to make your model easy to understand by everyone. So everyone will fall in love with you.
Mirko Kloppenberg
Yeah, that’s cool. I was just thinking about handing over a number of process models I created to just get your feedback on that to learn what I can improve there. So that would be also part of this workshop series. Could the participants also hand in process they already have, or are you just handing over a given case and then they have to mail that?
Kevin Tan
So what I did is that the program start with the business scenario that I have designed for them. So from there they can learn different aspect of the modeling. After you have finished this five weeks, then on top of that, I will give two one on one coaching where we can actually export to any modeling question that we can explore in detail. The reason is that from my experience, when I talk to when I coach, I’m mentoring different model. They all have different area that need improvement. They all have different area to need improvement. So me as a coach, as a mentor, I have to help them to address the most important area first. So everyone is different. When it comes to the one on one question, everyone is different because I could not overwhelm them with too many things they need to improve. So I need to pick the right one. So then guide them, lead them to the higher standard that I want to go to. So everyone is different.
Mirko Kloppenberg
Cool.
Kevin Tan
Yeah.
Mirko Kloppenberg
Let’s see. Maybe I’m going to participate in that as well. That’s super interesting. And I love to get feedback on my modeling skills. That’s great. Cool. The question I’m always asking at the end is, do you have a recommendation for another expert method tool we should have a closer look on to get ideas on how to rethink processes? So would you recommend something there for me to look into?
Kevin Tan
I wouldn’t recommend any person. I would say that I will encourage the reader to actually get as much exposure. You can see how I mean, try to look at different people more. Not just Kevin, look at Merkel, look at anyone out there just to absorb. Because anyone out there, they have something that good that you can actually learn from. So just go to but I think don’t just stick to one person. That’s why I say don’t stick to one person. Try to get as much exposure as possible.
Mirko Kloppenberg
Okay, that’s cool. Perfect. So before we land the aircraft or before we leave the aircraft because we already smoothly landed, is there anything else you would like to share with our listeners?
Kevin Tan
I would say that if you are a process modeler. Out there, be it a BA or be it a process analyst where you need to use process modeling as one to get your job done. I would say that learn because process modeling is the easiest skill to learn compared to other skill. So don’t just do it and not try to learn. So you can actually improve it in a very short time frame compared to other skills such as say, communication skill, presentation skill, stakeholder management, that is much more difficult to learn. But process modeling is the easiest skill to learn. But people just do not want to learn. I just do not understand. Once you learn it, it’s going to help you do even better to communicate with your stakeholder. Yes. Put some love into it because people can tell if you have this model with all the line crossing left and right, just like yeah, I love that.
Mirko Kloppenberg
Put some love into it. That’s super cool. Okay. Wow, that was inspiring. Maybe we can provide a video afterwards as well so we can deep dive a little bit more with some images. But for the podcast itself, how would you describe your flight experience here in the podcast episode?
Kevin Tan
With just three words, I would say that it’s very real. McCoy, when I talk to you, I think we are quite like top of process model. I think it’s very spontaneous. Is it? Yeah, a bit of random. It’s cool. Thank you so much. You have this podcast so more people can get to know process. More people in this case can know about process modeling.
Mirko Kloppenberg
Yeah. Very good, Kevin. Super cool that you were my guest here and we definitely stay in touch because I love what you’re doing and I have to learn more about that. So thank you so much for being my guest. Have a great day, Kevin. Thank you. Bye.
Kevin Tan
Thank you. Thank you everyone. Bye.
Mirko Kloppenberg
Wow, that was a lot of fun. If you didn’t know it before, it should be clear now that I’m a real process modeling nerd or so. I love the art of process modeling and I don’t know how many process modelers I have trained over the last 20 years, but I wish I had known the concept of processability earlier would have been great for all the trainings. I love its three elements storytelling, visual balance and simplicity. In all the trainings, I was always fighting for aesthetic minimum requirements, which goes a lot into the direction of visual balance. And I really enjoyed the conversation with Kevin and we continued our conversation after the recording and spontaneously decided to record a video with two visual balance showcases. So you just have to view these videos to understand more about process ability. To do so, simply go to Newprocesslab.com Kevin and then you will find the videos there. And yeah, just don’t miss it. It’s super interesting and it will definitely improve your process modeling as an outlook to the next episode. I’m still producing just in time, but if everything works out as it is planned right now, there is something really big coming up. So stay tuned for that. But for now, thank you very much for listening today. Don’t miss the video by following newprocesslab.com. Kevin, thank you very much. Bye bye.
Before you leave, as you might know, I’m doing a lot of research on how to rethink processes and how to get people excited about processes. If you would like to find out more about how to rethink your own process, you can download my free New Process Checklist, which provides a lot of impulses on how to push your process to the next level. To download it, simply go to newprocesslab.com checklist. So check it out. Have a great day. Bye.
