How to use branding and storytelling to inspire people for processes with Carolin Junge
#043 Let’s find out how to get people excited about processes through branding and storytelling!
In this episode, I’m speaking to Carolin Junge. We talk about her work at “oh boy!” and how she helps companies find their brand voice with helpful methods like storytelling. We’re also going to dive deep into finding that excitement for brands and, of course, how to apply that to processes. How do creativity and process get along in general? Let’s find out…
Today’s Guest:
Carolin Junge
Caro is founder and CEO of “oh boy!”. oh boy! is a branding company with a focus on brand identity and how to bring it to life. With storytelling and cool ideas for every touchpoint, they make corporate, personal, and employer brands more exciting.
Before founding oh boy!, Caro worked at Etengo as Team Leader Marketing with a focus on how to develop positioning and brand strategy. Before that, she worked as Head of Marketing & Sales for a fashion start-up with a focus on B2B brand positioning, and she established the brand in the German retail market in 600 stores such as KaDeWe and Galerie Lafayette.
She studied Music and Creative Industries at Popakademie Baden-Württemberg
Caro also completed a training as a grief coach and plans to revolutionize the German grief culture.
You’ll learn:
- What the difference between branding and storytelling is
- How she helps companies to find their brand voices
- What the most helpful methods for successful branding and storytelling are
- What Caro’s tips are for getting people excited about processes in relation to her methods.
- What a grief coach is and what she has learned from this training.
- How you can apply all this to rethink your process
Resources
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Transcript
Please note that the transcript was generated automatically and only slightly adjusted. It does not claim to be a perfect transcription.
Mirko00:19
Yeah, welcome to episode 43 of the New Process Podcast. Today, it’s all about how to use branding and storytelling to inspire people for processes. Therefore, I’m talking to Carolin Junge. Caro is founder and CEO of “ohboy!”. ohboy is a branding company with a focus on brand identity and how to bring it to life. With storytelling and cool ideas for every touch point, they make corporate, personal and employer brands more exciting.
00:50
Before founding ohboy!, Caro worked at Etengo as team leader, marketing with a focus on developing positioning and brand strategy. Before that, she worked as head of marketing and sales at a fashion startup with a focus on B2B brand positioning, and she established the brand in the German retail market in 600 stores such as KaDeWe and Galerie Lafayette. She studied music and creative industries at Pop Academy, Baden-Württemberg. What I also find super interesting is the fact that she recently completed a training as a grief coach and plans to revolutionize the German grief culture. I’ll also try to shed some light on this and try to find out how this relates to branding and what we, as process people, can learn from it. Together with her husband and son, Caro lives in Mannheim, a city I really love because I studied there at the beginning of the 2000s and I really enjoyed these times. Some other things Caro excites are books and basketball, two topics she can never stop talking about.
01:57
So in this episode, you’ll learn what the difference between branding and storytelling is, how Caro helps companies to find their brand voice, and what you can take out of it for your processes, what the most helpful methods for successful branding and storytelling are, what Caro’s tips are for getting people excited about processes based on her experience. And we also talk about what a grief coach is and what she has learned from this training, and also what we can learn from her experiences there. Finally, it’s all about how you can apply this to rethink your process. So enjoy the Interview with Carolin Junge. Yeah, welcome to the new process podcast, Caro. It’s super cool to have you here. Finally, we made it. I have to say, I fell in love with your LinkedIn posts and I have to find out how you’re creating these lovely posts today. So welcome to the new process podcast, Caro.
Carolin03:01
Thank you so much for the invitation, Mirko. I’m very glad to be here.
Mirko03:05
Wow, that’s so nice, Cool. Then, as always, let’s start with a check-in, and there the first question is what do you prefer in an aircraft aisle or window seat?
Carolin03:15
For me it’s definitely aisle seat, because I hate to be trapped somewhere inside.
Mirko03:22
Yeah, I fully understand that. What is your favorite airport?
Carolin03:26
Actually I don’t have a favorite airport. Let’s just say it’s always the airport I’m currently at, because that means I’m about to explore a new place.
Mirko03:35
That sounds very good. Actually, I thought about that and you’re living in Mannheim and I’ve been studying in Mannheim a few years ago and I’ve been flying from Mannheim Airport to Hamburg several times. I’m not sure if this airport still exists, but at that time it was such a tiny little airport where you could basically walk from the check-in directly to the aircraft.
Carolin03:59
Yeah, it still exists, but I’ve never been there. Oh, okay, I think you can go to Hamburg, Berlin or to Zürich.
Mirko04:09
Zürich. Yeah, that’s also a good option. I think I had one of the craziest flights from Mannheim to Frankfurt, where the aircraft landed in stormy conditions and I saw the runway right out of my window on the right-hand side and the aircraft was going down and it was going into the right direction in the stormy conditions. It was super crazy. These are my memories to Mannheim.
Carolin04:37
You will always remember that?
Mirko04:39
Yeah, definitely. But today I want to talk about you and your experience. But what was the best process you have ever experienced?
Carolin04:47
Well, I had to think about that question for quite some time and let me say I’m not sure if I can say it’s the best process, but that was what came to my mind. I just finished a one-year training to become a grief coach and I think the process to do that was, work-wise, like organization on everything a very, very nice process, very well-organized and structured, but especially for me personally, it was a very, very good process to grow and develop.
Mirko05:20
Okay, yeah, we are going to deep dive into that topic a little bit later, but that’s interesting to see that the process was good.
Speaker05:28
Yeah, it was To learn and to study?
Mirko05:30
Yeah, very cool. And how would you describe your relationship to processes?
Carolin05:35
Can I say here that I have a love-hate relationship with process Sure.
Mirko05:38
Sure, a lot of people do that’s cool.
Carolin05:41
Good to know. Like I love process because I love it when things are structured and I love efficiency and I think that’s a very good point to follow processes but at the same time I’m like some kind of a creative and chaotic head and I’m not very good at sticking to processes. I love it when it’s structured, but I’m not very good at sticking to it because I think it somehow boils my brain. So my brain gives me new impulses and it’s like oh, maybe you can just try this, and then I’m trying something new and not sticking to what I actually wanted to do. So it’s kind of difficult sometimes.
Mirko06:20
Okay, yeah, that’s interesting, but I would say, as long as the process provides enough flexibility for creativity, you can still follow it. Maybe that should be part of the process, to be able to walk around and go to the left and right side.
Carolin06:35
Yeah, just as you said it, I thought maybe that’s the best process for me, is something that leaves enough room for flexibility, and then it’s fine for me.
Mirko06:43
Yeah, that sounds very good, Super cool. So on your LinkedIn profile you call yourself in German, but I translate that to English branding auntie and storyteller. So what are you doing in these two roles? Are these two roles? Is it one?
Carolin06:58
Well, it’s one and a million roles, like everything and one thing, and so, basically, I work with brands like companies, or for corporate branding or employer brands, or also personal brands, or with companies who want to become a brand, like brands to be, and I’m helping them to develop their brand identity.
07:22
So what we want to do is we want to give their branding, like, a huge dose of authenticity Like I know it’s a buzzword, but I still think it’s very important and to develop a clear brand vibe. You know that you have some kind of emotional reaction to the brand, that you feel something when you are in contact with it and when we are working on the identity, to find out what is that kind of vibe you want to spread. The next step is to bring that to life at every touch point. So that’s where I use storytelling, that’s where I’m the storyteller, the woman, and to find the right words for the brand, to find the right brand voice. You know, like really, what’s the tone of voice we’re using to talk and in any type of text actually, or maybe also concepts, to make the touch points more exciting, to make the brand vibe come out. That’s what we do.
Mirko08:18
Okay, that’s so interesting. What would you say is the core of your approach?
Carolin08:23
I’m glad you’re asking me that now, because if you would have asked like a year ago, I think I couldn’t have told you like very precise. Now I can say it’s exciting brands. That means on the one hand, we think like I’m always saying we, because we’re a two woman show at a boy we think that every brand already has something exciting in its core. I should chooseingen me Well, you can make it with erzählt.
08:49
I think in contact with a lot of brands you feel like, oh, that’s boring, there’s or the topic is super boring, super conservative, so you don’t feel like it’s very exciting for you. But actually I think every topic in every brand does have something exciting in it. And if you can’t feel it like it’s often that most brands haven’t just looked out for it yet. So that’s the one thing. And on the other hand, I think that’s also what exciting brands stand for, that a lot of brands just lack ideas how to transfer that excitement that they actually have to the touchpoints they have, so they know what it is about. But they can transfer it so you can feel it.
Mirko09:33
On the other side, yeah, that sounds a lot like the problems we process guys have. But okay, we’ll talk about that in a few minutes. So you said a year ago you didn’t know what exactly the core of your approach was. Did you apply your own methodology to oh boy to find out what’s the core of your brand, or?
Carolin09:53
Yeah, we tried, but it’s super difficult to do that for yourself. That’s actually why we do that for others, because it’s such a difference if you have someone externally looking at your stuff or you’re inside and the Germans saying so sie ist den Weid für lauter Bäume nicht. So you’re so deep in it you can’t just see it and you need someone being kind of a mirror for you to tell you hey, you know, when you’re talking about that, that sounds super exciting. Let’s dig deeper and let’s find out what’s in there. So it was very hard for us as well to find that out for our own brand. We had some help actually.
Mirko10:33
Okay, yeah, that’s good. I think it’s always good to get some external help to get some other perspectives onto what you’re doing. That’s super cool. What was just to give an example to our audience? What was your favorite project you’ve been working on?
Carolin10:48
That’s also a tough question. We had a lot of projects, I don’t know, I think topic-wise and also with the people. It was the project where we worked on a brand and their service is they turn old shipping containers into tiny houses and I love the topic like it was really, really and also really funny to work with the people there. So we worked on their brand and also brand boys. That was very cool. And the other very nice project was a startup from Mannheim here. It’s called Kyoto Maybe you want to have a look at the website and they developed a new smart block like they are in the smart home market, and we were there from the beginning of the branding process, like the first brand workshop, over like two years or something, developing everything together with a graphic designer the whole look and feel.
11:41
We did the concept for the website, all the structure. We wrote all the text. We developed the whole tonality. We found some claims for ads and everything. So it was like the whole package and it was so much fun to see everything come to life with every month. So that was, yeah, I’m very proud of that project actually.
Mirko12:01
Okay, that’s cool. I’m going to put the link into the show notes so the people can look up the example. That’s cool. I would love to understand what kind of tools or methodologies are you using for branding and storytelling. I guess we have to differentiate between storytelling on the one hand side and branding maybe is the overall part. I don’t know. So how would you approach that and which kind of tools are you using for branding and storytelling?
Carolin12:29
I think you can actually answer for both of them. And I also have to say storytelling is actually a method itself. So it’s part of the answer and it might appear a little boring what I’m going to say now, but the most helpful methods for successful branding and storytelling as well are observing, listening and asking. So it’s like really basic methods, but that’s what it’s actually all about, combined with, of course, experience, gut feeling and a lot of imagination. But you know, it’s also what I said before it’s every brand has a brand core already. They might just not have found out about it. So the excitement we want to find and we want to show is already in there. We have to just dig deeper and find it. And that’s what it’s about in branding and storytelling. You just don’t just come up with some stories or something you think might look or sound very, very good, because then it’s storytelling, like you know, being the old man with a white beard telling some stories and no one believes.
13:44
But what you want to do is you want to tell about the things that are really there and put them into nice stories and put them in something emotional and into that vibe. And that’s the same with branding. You just don’t put something out there which is not true. You know, or you can, but then it’s. Yeah, that’s difficult.
Mirko14:03
Okay, and how do you discover these exciting stories? Do you perform a workshop, or do you do interviews? Or how do you approach that?
Carolin14:12
Yeah, sometimes it’s like within our brand workshops, but we also have like in interview sessions or something. There’s one method, for example. It’s called story listening and it’s also very, very simple, but it’s such a cool thing. You can try that on your own. Actually, when you ask people about stories like they remember that really excited them.
14:34
You know, for example, in a company, when you’re new to a company, what happens is you are told the same five to 10 stories all the time. You know, ah, you know, remember, three years ago at the Christmas party, this person did this or that. You know, like there are some stories to the core of the company which survive years over years and everyone tells about that. And if you get into that, if you get people into remembering stories they had and telling you them, the other people will also remember something else. And then everyone is telling like stories.
15:09
And it’s so different to ask them what do you think are your values or what is important for your company? But to hear a story and then like, just take the essence of the story out and like, ah, you’re very, very like that or this is very important to you, right? So, like, the brand core is mainly to be found in the stories, and that’s a cool thing to do, because it’s also so cool to see people when they remember stuff they like and they you know you see their eyes they’re like oh my God, that was so cool, you remember that or we had that, or do you remember that funny story? And then they are so into it you actually just can’t stop them anymore and then you get everything. And also it’s so cool because they take you. They take you with them on a very, very personal and intimacy level and that’s cool. That’s where you find the real stuff.
Mirko16:07
Yeah, I love that, and we’ll talk about how to apply that to processes in a second, but before I’d love to find out, as I already said, I really fell in love with your posts on LinkedIn. So how you write, how you find the right words and how lovely you play with the words. It’s hard to express that in English for me, but it’s just super cool to read your posts there. What is your recipe for writing these lovely stories or articles? How do you find the right words? What are the ingredients to write, in a way, like you do, the?
Carolin16:42
secret sauce to writing.
16:45
First, thank you so much because this kind of feedback is one of the most beautiful things for me, because I just love words. You know, I really love words. So, yeah, that’s very hard one for me to hear there. Thank you. This secret sauce I’d really love to tell you what it is, but the truth is I can’t tell. Like you know, I don’t have a structured process I can tell you about now how to you know how to sit down and do it. Or maybe I do have a process, but it’s very yeah, it’s not very clear.
17:21
Let me say that because writing really is creative work, of course. So I would say it’s more a trust process work. So it’s like, you know, you’re sitting down having a blank page in front of you, and I think a lot of people, also writers, are afraid of blank pages and are like what am I going to do now? I, you know it’s not like you’re sitting down and have like 10,000 creative sentences in your head and like, oh, let me just put it down and then it’s done. So you just start typing or writing handwriting and I think the process is to just not stop.
17:57
You know, like, especially when you think it’s super stupid what you’re writing right now, just don’t stop, because from like that’s my process I’ve learned for me that my path to unique writing and to like words that are special leads through a valley of a lot of nonsense. Like you know, I’m writing nonsense and I know I’m writing nonsense, but I’m like okay, I know that process, I’m just doing it, and I think that’s what happens with a lot of writers, like what people see is the result and they think for these people it’s just super easy to find the right words and to, you know, just sit down two minutes and write down a like kick ass text and but, trust me, like most of the time, what you see is the outcome of a very, very long process, like full of, also like self doubt and discarding, rewriting, thinking over it again. Yeah, so I think that’s the process.
Mirko18:54
Okay, so next time I try to write a text in your style, I have to tell chat GPT do it like Carol is doing it. Or are you using a GPT for idea generation as co-pilot or I tried and sometimes I’m back to trying it again.
Carolin19:14
But actually it’s like I like it for research, for, you know, for having a very fast overview on, ah, what is that topic about, or you know, but for my writing process it actually disturbs me, because then I’m like, ah, maybe I could have like a quick take here and just use what’s there and make it better. But I’m noticing in the end it disturbed the process for me and I’m not you know what I just described. I’m not getting there because I haven’t done the process. So I’m like for, like, creative writing, I’m not using it.
Mirko19:49
Yeah, same for me. So in the end, whatever chat GPT comes up with, that’s not mine, so it’s not really miracle and that’s not authentic, and that’s why I sometimes use it to add some emojis that fit to my text. So I just put it there. Ah, cool idea, so just some emojis that fit to this and that makes it easier.
Carolin20:10
I always use the same three emojis. Ah, okay.
Mirko20:16
I love to play around a little bit with that. Come up with some varieties there. So that was my approach with chat, gpt, okay, cool. But with regards to processes? So, as I already told you, and I think as most of our listeners experience on their own, a process management is often perceived as a really boring topic, dusty, and no one wants to work according to processes. So that’s why I’m doing a lot of research on how to get people excited about processes, and what would you recommend to a person who is responsible for process management in an organization? So is operating a process management tool, trying to get the people excited about processes? What’s your recommendation on how to get people excited with regards to your methods?
Carolin21:05
I think it’s always about your own excitement, like you just told me, and I think that you can feel it. You are excited about processes. You are excited about finding out how you can yeah, just a little bit. Yeah, you know finding new ways also to talk to that, about that, with people. And I think that’s also what you can use when you are someone who works with processes and want to, or need to, excite other people about it, because normally, as you said, they are not that excited about the topic. So you can just go and for yourself ask yourself what is it that excites me about it? What do I have in mind when I think about processes? What do I think we can reach? What do you think is? What is the vision I have? Where can we go if we keep getting better with that?
22:03
And I think if you answer these topics for yourself, you can also go out and take people with you on an emotional base. You know it’s always the same thing also with presentations, with every stuff, like the storytelling part. Just don’t tell hard facts, like, okay, you know, process management was found in 1968 and the guy who formed it was, and these are the stages we have to go. You can be like, okay, we have different stages in process management. Imagine we’d be on a journey, you know, and then you just put a roadmap there or maybe just, you know, take your travel photos from your last journey and put that process into that. Maybe, you know, make it personal and make it emotional for the others so they can feel how this is exciting for you and they can feel why this is also exciting for them, for their work, what’s in it for them. And yeah, maybe just get a little bit of the excitement as well. You don’t have to get them as excited as you are, but maybe a little bit.
Mirko23:14
Okay, how should I do that? Should I just sit down with a sheet of paper and write down my thoughts, or what would your recommendation be to how to approach this challenge?
Carolin23:24
In order to answer your own questions first, yes, yeah, the first step.
23:30
I think it depends on how you work. You know, like what I said, a lot of people are afraid of blank pages, even writers. So maybe a blank page is not the best way to go. Maybe you can also just go for a walk, you know, you go for a walk, breathe some fresh air and just think about it. And when you have some thoughts, maybe you can just have a voice memo to yourself or something.
23:55
Or for me, for example, that works very good when I’m in a conversation with someone else. So when I’m for myself thinking about stuff like that, I’m like I don’t know what I’m writing. But when I talk about these topics with others and that’s also the mirroring part I told you before, you know, when someone is like, oh, now you’re on fire, that’s a topic, then you know okay, that’s where I’m really getting excited now. So maybe someone else can just tell you ah, you know, I think now I’m feeling why you love it, and for me it’s sometimes I’m telling people stuff and I need to hear myself speak, and then I’m like, ah, that’s an interesting thought. So that’s how I work. But I think people know somehow for themselves maybe not in the work context, but personally what works for them. Yeah, but maybe try something else than a blank page, because it’s always a little bit difficult.
Mirko24:52
Okay, thanks for that recommendation. And then afterwards will we be the second step on how to bring this excitement out to the people there. How should I approach that?
Carolin25:02
I think the easiest way could be, for example, if you let’s just imagine you have a presentation to tell people about the process management, the stuff you are about to do, you could not start like the typical way with hi, this is our process management meeting today. This is a agenda. Let me tell you what we’re going to talk about, because everyone will be like, oh yeah, super excited about that. Tell me more. So maybe you can just wake everyone up and be like what’s going on here? You know, get a little curious If you just start without a presentation, just stand there and be like you know, I thought about what is it actually that excites me about process management? And you’re just telling them something which comes from your personal point of view. You know where they can feel hey, okay, that’s different to what I’ve expected. And then you can also like I think this is the first very easy point. It’s well. I say very easy because I think it’s always you have to have some courage to share something from yourself, because it’s personal and people are not used to sharing something personal in work context often. But I think that’s also what makes people excited about it, because they notice and they are like oh, that’s different. Cool, let me just listen. And then I think you just got a hook there to catch them into the topic and what you can also do, like for your presentation, for example, what I said.
26:31
You can just think of another way to come up with what you want to tell. You know, for example, like a journey is a very common approach, you know. Like if you have some processes, if you have something where you have different steps to go, it’s a very common approach to be like okay, let’s imagine we are on a journey. This is the point where we are starting now. This is the way ahead, these are the steps we have to go and this is where we want to. This is where we want to go.
27:01
You know, this is our goal, maybe with a mountain, climbing a mountain or something else. So you can also combine that with something you like. You know, if you’re a mountain climber, maybe you just take a picture or a story of that. If you’re into hiking, maybe you just use a very nice hike. If you’re like, you know, if you’re like van life, you can just take people on a van trip with you, you know. Or if you like all inclusive holidays, maybe you can also combine that and just put a you know the map there and put your stages up there. So just think of something you would like to talk about or you the topic you like, and it makes things a lot easier for you to talk about that with excitement instead of just facts and seeing people getting bored and being bored by yourself.
Mirko27:52
Yeah, I just thought I like processes, I like talking about process, and it’s really hard to talk about process, to be excited about process and use that as example. I understand you approach. That. That’s a good idea. Thank you very much. I already, while you were talking, thought about how to transfer that to a specific process as well, so it could be applied to process management overall, but for sure to a specific business process like HR hiring process and so on. So I guess methodology would always be the same, or?
Carolin28:24
yeah sure.
Mirko28:25
Yeah, okay, wow, that’s cool. It would definitely have to deep, dig deeper into this in the future, but for today, in the introduction I already said that you recently completed a training as grief coach. And yeah, right, I’m not sure. But I thought, oh, that’s, that’s interesting. It’s a little bit strange, that’s not common, I would say, to be trained as a grief coach. But how did you come up with that idea?
Carolin28:53
Yeah, that’s. That’s a question, that, which is not that easy to answer for me, because it’s a long way. I went there. I just actually stumbled over a documentation about how they say that modern morticians in Germany and their work. Like, which go another way than the very conservative way you know of morticians.
Mirko29:16
Okay.
Carolin29:17
And I got super excited about the topic. I saw the documentation. I was like, wow, that’s interesting. I actually had to thought maybe I could be a mortician somewhere in my life and then I thought, okay, that might be a little bit strange. Everyone around me, like you know, I did branding and I’m a mortician. So I decided to do what I like to do when I, when topics excite me, I read a lot of books about it. Okay, so I ordered a lot of books or bought some ebooks about it and, like for a year or something, I read a lot about, like that, morticians, their work, grief stuff, and I love that. You said this is a little bit strange, because I think that’s what a lot of people think. How can you get excited about a topic like that and grief?
Speaker30:04
Yeah.
Carolin30:04
And I don’t know, but you can, and I’ve met a lot of, I’ve met a lot of other people who could as well. So it’s not just, it’s not just strange me. And then, like on the way, reading books and everything, I’ve learned that there’s work called grief coaching and I didn’t know that. That you did. You know that before. Before I told you I did that training.
Mirko30:27
I’m not sure. I experienced something in the past when I was quite young, and I know that there was help support to handle the situation, but luckily I’ve never had the necessity to take that kind of support for my own. So I’m not sure.
Carolin30:44
No, I mean, that’s a. That’s a good thing to hear, because of course, that’s some work you actually don’t want to need, but I think it’s super good when it’s there in case it’s needed and what I experienced, just like for myself.
30:58
A lot of people just don’t know that grief coaching or grief counseling exists. So they don’t know that there are external people working for support in that kind of situation, because grief and all the topics around it are something which is dealt with on a very, very like family and personal level and you don’t take it to the outside normally. Yeah, so I stumbled over that information that there’s grief coaching and I thought, like you know, it was like an instant, that’s what I want to do, that this is what I want to do. And then I’ve researched for trainings and I’ve started that training over a year.
Mirko31:37
Oh, that’s super interesting. And also the trigger itself is super interesting. By just dumbling over the topic and just wanting to know more, I thought maybe she experienced something bad a loss of a person and now she want to learn more about that. But that’s a different approach. That’s cool. And how does this fit to what you do in your normal life, like now? It’s part of your normal life. I’m sorry for that, but how does it fit to branding?
Carolin32:03
Yeah, I’ve already asked myself that for quite some time and of course people asked me that because for most of the people it’s like two very different things. But actually I found out for myself it fits pretty well because you know, like, in, grief and death are two topics which are like something no one wants to talk about, and what we can do with that is we can or I can use my expertise as a branding and storytelling specialist and find new ways how to talk about it. You know, like, dig out the parts that can even excite people who don’t want to talk about it, because actually and that’s the good thing like not the good thing, but in terms of branding, like, everyone has some experience with that kind of topic. So you know what we are talking about and I think it’s the same thing we’ve talked about before.
32:56
You just have to find ways to make it exciting and interesting for people, because what I’ve learned since I’m doing, or since I did that training, it’s not that people don’t want to talk about it at all, it’s just they don’t yeah, they don’t dare. It’s very hard for them because we haven’t learned that pretty well. But if you’re like, oh, you know, I’m a grief counselor and they’re like oh wow, super interested and like after 10 or 20 minutes everyone wants to talk actually about it and I think I can use that expertise in finding ways how to talk about it, developing products to work with it. I also plan to do some pop up stuff, you know, like with RZ, but also just take it to the public and make people see the topic and make people talk about it, and I think if you have an expertise of branding and storytelling, it’s a very huge plus in terms of we might be successful with that.
Mirko33:57
Wow, that’s fascinating. And what are your key learnings from this training, which you can transfer to branding, storytelling, so the other way around?
Carolin34:08
That’s a good question. I think it’s what I just said. The taboo topic you know that even if people seem not to wanting to talk about something or to share something, it might not be true, it might just not be their way to talk about it. You know, and you find creative ways, maybe like around the wall, to come from another side and make people talk about something, Because, yeah, that’s, that’s what I’ve learned with grief.
34:42
People need someone or some place where they can talk about it, and I think it’s. You just have to find the right way to give them, like, the right method, the right tool, the right type of question, or, you know, just a drawing sometimes or some writing exercise which they can use to put their feelings in, yeah, words, or maybe just actions, because what’s not there? And I think we can also transfer that to branding and storytelling. You know, because that’s what I said in the beginning, it’s hard for people if you just ask them okay, so tell me what your value is, and they’re like that’s a tough question, I don’t know. So you also have to find, like, create a way around, ways around it to get them to the point where they want to talk about it or where they want to tell stories, and you can just take out and get to the essence of what’s in there what are they talking about right now and what can I see? And then I can use that and work further with that. Does it make sense?
Mirko35:50
Absolutely, absolutely, and I’m not sure if it’s appropriate to go from this fascinating topic back to processes. Sure, I have one question which came up to my mind when preparing this interview. As I already told you, I’m organizing a conference which will take place in April next year, the new process conference, where we bring together people working on processes, working as being accountable for processes and organization, just to meet in person for the first time. That’s super important for me after COVID, to meet the people and to exchange about experiences and to find new ways on how to rethink processes. And actually it’s really hard for me to bring that into words what this conference is for and to get people excited to participate in the conference. So for sure I guess there are some people out there who already understood what Mirko is doing there. What would be your recommendation to Mirko on how to communicate this conference in a more successful way or how to improve the communication here?
Carolin37:01
I think the most important step to improve the communication, to make it successful, is to tell people I will be there.
Mirko37:08
You will be there, no.
Carolin37:10
I will be there.
Mirko37:11
You will be there, we too. No, no, no, we should talk about that, both of us will be there, both of us. Yeah, okay, that’s great. And then what do you do there?
Carolin37:21
I was obviously joking. I would like to be there, but I think there are some other ways to make it successful. It’s the same thing. I’m sorry if I say things over again, but just find out for yourself why are you doing that, what do you stand for? And a good way to make it more precise if you tell people about it, because I know that, as you might notice, I like talking a lot, but sometimes it’s hard just to get to the point, because if you are not clear about that, you’re just talking about it. And a very easy method to make it more precise is to talk about that over and over again with people, because you will get to that point in a better way. Maybe not the most precise way, but you will leave things out where you notice. Oh, people don’t understand. It doesn’t help me to make them excited about it, because you see the immediate reaction when you’re talking about that and then you can already sharpen the words and the description a little bit for yourself and also, I think, to make people excited about it. It’s, of course, about which people will be there. Do I understand? What’s in it for me? What is that? When I’m going out of it, what will I have learned? Who will I have met? How inspired will I be?
38:45
And also think about what is your goal. Do you want to educate? Do you want to entertain? Do you want to inspire and tell people about it? Because that’s different target groups who take different things out of such a conference. Also, I think it’s very important of course I have to say that as a branding specialist but think of your look and feel.
39:06
If you have a website or something coming up, really think about how design and what you say go hand in hand. So to give that brand vibe you want to reach, if you want to be an inspirational conference, then it has to look different than if you stand for a strong point of education. So, yeah, you should think about that and really work on how does it look and what do I say? So people get on a website and get excited about it, as we usually say here a lot of time. And I think also very important point there to be unique, like don’t you know?
39:44
Don’t just go to 20 conference websites and be like, oh, that’s nice, I have to do it like this. Oh, maybe I can do it like this and just put everything together. It’s good for inspiration, but at some point just leave it there. You got your inspiration in your head and just there to do what you think might be very good for your brand and for your conference, because then people will also know okay, that’s different, it’s something else, because otherwise it might just look like the next conference how conferences look today, you know and then I think that topic is so unique and so interesting.
40:21
If you, you know also already your way to do this podcast with people who are not in process management at all is such a creative way to deal with the topic. So you can also find a lot more creative ways to put that in a conference, maybe not just keynotes and stages. Maybe you could also do a live podcast session there, because you always do that. People know that.
Mirko40:46
So, yeah, yeah, okay, damn, I should have asked you earlier. So just to make that transparent for our listeners, we are recording this on December 12th I think that’s the date today and we’re planning to release the episode on January 10th. So still enough time to improve the communication for the conference. We’ll see what will happen over the holidays. So how I can use the time Maybe there’s something surprising coming out after releasing this episode in January to get more people excited about processes and to participate in the conference. It would be great if you would join us there. If you really and I’m not joking there Maybe we can talk about that after the interview.
Carolin41:40
Yeah.
Mirko41:40
I’d really love to. Yeah, maybe it’s a good idea to have a workshop session to find out how to get people excited, how to tell my process story, something like that. That would be super cool, yeah.
Carolin41:55
Let’s talk about that, yeah.
Mirko41:57
Yeah, we will definitely Super cool. Okay, so to wrap it up, what is your key message to our listeners? To rethink processes and to inspire people for processes.
Carolin42:09
I’m talking about excitement again. Okay, now I think I really think when you work with processes, don’t stop at that point where you think, oh yeah, everyone finds it boring, it’s a boring topic, it’s, it’s super lame, I cannot do anything about it because it’s just a boring topic. Look at it from the other way and think of everything can be exciting, and every single topic, every product, every service, it’s just how you transport it and go and search for what makes you and other people really excited about it. You know you just don’t have to look only at yourself. Also, look at what how are other people excited about it, and then make that part of your communication and it will help you a lot.
Mirko42:54
Okay, cool, I will love this recommendation.
Carolin43:00
Let me know the results.
Mirko43:03
Maybe you can be part of the process and help me out. Yeah, okay, cool. So where can our if our listeners now thought, oh, I have to work with cow. Where can they learn more about you? How can they contact you?
Carolin43:16
Well, of course, linkedin. Well, I say, of course, it’s my bubble. They can find me on LinkedIn. It’s like the most personal way, I guess, and maybe they can have a look at the at the LinkedIn posts you’ve talked about earlier. And for the first overview of my work, like branding and storytelling, I am very proud to finally be able to say that I have a website now for my company. Oh Boy, because it took us more than three years to come up with one, so you can just visit our website.
43:47
Ohboyde, how do you say that in English? Do you say it? Yeah, sounds weird. Yeah, okay, and I, yeah, for everyone interested in branding or maybe in grief, I’m just starting another career in the terms of newsletters. So I’m just about to start a newsletter on branding together with a very cool colleague, and I’m like about to launch that within the next one or two weeks, and I’m also, at the same time, about to start a newsletter on grief with a colleague, so we are also about to launch that soon. I will talk about that on LinkedIn, I guess, so that might be the way to find out about that.
Mirko44:34
Yeah, and I try to put the links into show notes as soon as something is available. That’s cool, yeah, and you definitely have to look up the website. It’s different and I had a look at it yesterday and, yeah, I would say this is Kavo. That fits perfectly with what you’re doing, to what you just told us today. So thank you very much for that. One last question I’m always asking my s for recommendations at which topics or to whom I should talk to or which tool I should explore to get new ideas on how to rethink processes. So do you have a recommendation for another topic, expert, a method, a tool, whatever?
Carolin45:18
You know what I think would be cool Maybe you already had that you could talk to a professional athlete. Like you know, I’m very much into sports and I love basketball and I think it might be so cool to talk about a basketball player like you know, from the NBA, maybe, or maybe, and actually just yesterday I finished reading a book about Kobe Bryant and he said something which fits very well, because he said you know, basketball is a sports full of structure and processes, but the best players do find their room for creative, like creative ways to play and for flexibility.
46:02
And maybe that’s where I like basketball so much, but that might be so cool to to talk about, like how strong we have to stick to processes, to the structure, to strategies, and where’s the room for something else. You know, maybe that could be cool.
Mirko46:21
Okay, now you just have to make an intro to one of these guys. I will.
Carolin46:28
I actually will.
Mirko46:29
Yeah, let’s do that. That’s super interesting, wow, cool. Thank you so much for all these insights. Before we leave the aircraft. I’m not sure if you realized that we smoothly landed. It was not as stormy as that time when I flew from Mannheim to Hamburg a few years ago was quite good conditions today. Is there anything else you would like to share with our listeners before we leave the aircraft?
Carolin46:52
I think I will come up with something when we when we finished our conversation. So no, I think I think we have talked about a lot of cool topics. I loved your questions, so no, I think we have come to the, to the points which are very important, and I think we have found cool new ways to bring together branding, storytelling and processes and some cool new perspectives.
Mirko47:19
Yeah, absolutely. I fully agree and I’m so thankful that you’ve been my today. Just the final question how would you describe your flight experience of today’s interview in just three words?
Carolin47:31
What do you think will be the first word I’m saying now?
Mirko47:35
Exciting.
Carolin47:37
Exciting, super exciting, yeah, really exciting. I felt very comfy here. Actually I thought I wouldn’t, because this is not my comfort zone speaking in a podcast and especially not in English but it was very comfy for me and inspiring. I love the way you inspire people to think in other ways. That’s very cool.
Mirko47:59
Wow, that’s, that’s a huge compliment. Thank you so much. Thank you for all these fascinating insights, and I’m really looking forward to working more with you in the future. So, Caro, thank you very much. Have a great day, bye, bye.
Carolin48:15
Thank you so much, Mirko, bye, bye.
Mirko48:24
Yeah, that was super interesting and it really showed me again how important it is to get people excited about processes. And even if I’m working on this question all day myself, I still experience difficulties in putting my excitement into words. So definitely helps to have an outside view onto what you are doing to specify what you are really excited about. Caro also mentioned story listening as a method to find out more about your brand or your process. So actually there is already a whole new process podcast episode on story listening In episode 23,.
49:00
I talked to Astrid Kirchhoff about this fascinating technique and I’ll put the link into the show notes. And I can definitely relate to the getting started problem Caro mentioned with the white sheet of paper, and I think it’s super helpful to accept this fact and to see it as a method to talk to others, to sort out your ideas and to focus on what really matters. Or you just go for a walk on your own or, as I love to do it, to just take a shower. Yeah, the only problem when taking a shower is to take notes, but that’s another challenge. So in the end, everyone has to find their own way, but I think I really learned a lot and I think I can apply Caro’s tips to my work to get people excited about processes and to support you, and I hope you can also take some of the insights and put that into practice into your daily work.
50:00
As you probably know by now, right after the interview I was able to win Caro for the new process conference as a facilitator for a deep dive session on how to tell your process story. So the idea is that we’re going to have a deep dive session where you can directly apply Caro’s knowledge to your process to develop ideas, to get people excited. And if you want to meet her in person and talk to her about her excitement, then come to the new process conference in April. And, by the way, you can learn more about the conference by going to newprocesslabcom slash conference. In the next episode we’ll have another method expert interview, again not from the BPM space, but I don’t want to reveal too much. So let’s see how this will work out. But for now, thank you much for listening. Have a great start into 2024. Bye, bye and auf Wiedersehen.
Mirko51:14
Before you leave. I know the process journey is hard and it’s even harder if you go on your own. I know this from my very own experience. That’s why I founded new process pro as a community to join forces with fellow BPM enthusiasts. So make your life easier and become part of new process pro today. Sign up for free. Just go to newprocesslabcom slash pro. Thank you very much, Bye, bye.
